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Jed the cleric is standing next to Gideon, his enemy. Jed casts bane; Gideon succeeds at his saving throw. On Jed's next turn, he uses the concentrate action to expand the aura and cause all creatures not yet "affected" to make a save. From the description of bane:

Once per turn, starting the turn after you cast bane, you can use a single action, which has the concentrate trait, to increase the emanation's radius by 5 feet and force enemies in the area that weren't yet affected to attempt another saving throw. Bane can counteract bless.

Gideon already succeeded on the saving throw once. Does he have to make another saving throw?

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3 Answers 3

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Gideon needs to save again.

and force enemies in the area that weren't yet affected to attempt another saving throw.

If an enemy successfully saved, they weren't yet affected by bane, and the spell says you would force them to make another saving throw. Furthermroe, nothing in the bane spell grants foes succeeding their save temporary immunity to the spell... and the spell tells them to make another save. If it'd just said "a save" it'd be a little ambiguous, but the wording in bane is pretty clear that your concentration on the spell makes people retry their save.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ A bit of additional support for this: a lot of effects in Pathfinder 2 indicate that saving gives you temporary immunity. It wouldn't have required introducing anything strange to add it in, if they'd intended it to work like that. \$\endgroup\$
    – Ben Barden
    Mar 24, 2021 at 16:31
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Gideon only needs to Save once

From a writing perspective, there is no point to the text

force enemies in the area that weren't yet affected to attempt another saving throw.

if it does not allow for creatures that have already Saved to ignore it. If they wanted to force re-Saves, they would more likely say that any creature that hadn't failed its Save, or similar phrasing. Unfortunately, the word 'affected' does cause questions and is not explicitly defined in the text. However, it is consistent elsewhere that when you Save against an ongoing effect, you have succeeded against the entire duration.

The only other text I see that tacitly confirms this is the rules on Bane's area, Emanation.

An emanation issues forth from each side of your space, extending out to a specified number of feet in all directions. For instance, the bless spell's emanation radiates 5 or more feet outward from the caster. Because the sides of a creature's space are the starting point for the emanation, an emanation from a Large or larger creature affects a greater overall area than that of a Medium or smaller creature. Unless the text states otherwise, the creature creating an emanation effect chooses whether the creature at its center is affected.

The area within the Emanation is considered 'affected' by this blurb.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ but if they didn't have to make a first saving throw, then why would hey have to make another? \$\endgroup\$
    – Ben Barden
    Mar 23, 2021 at 18:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ @BenBarden It is poorly worded, but I believe the saving throw is "another saving throw" compared to the initial casting whereas most spells either only have an initial save (or add that you can save at the end of each of your turns for some pseudo-incapacitates). \$\endgroup\$ Mar 23, 2021 at 23:47
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Gideon needs to save again.

Many spells that explicitly describe the outcomes of their (non-basic) saving throws, such as tether or baleful polymorph use the language "unaffected" to refer to a target suffering no effects as a result of their saving throw:

Critical Success The target is unaffected.

While that does not in and of itself prove that bane is intended to use "affected" in the same way, it does establish that a creature can remain unaffected by a spell (or other effect that has targeted them) as a result of their saving throw.

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