6
\$\begingroup\$

Say you make a Leap Attack with Shock Trooper and a two-handed weapon, taking -5 to attack and assigning the full penalty to AC instead. That's +2 attack, +15 damage, and -7 AC. You also use Karmic Strike, so your total AC penalty is -11.

Now it's an enemy's turn. It seems like they should have an extra +11 to hit you, so there's a good chance they do, provoking your attack of opportunity. I see no reason that you'd keep the charge attack bonus, so you swing with your normal attack modifiers. If this attack of opportunity lands, do you get +15 power attack damage?

\$\endgroup\$
2
\$\begingroup\$
  • Your baseline Power Attack carries over to the start of your next round.
  • The AC Penalties for charge and shock trooper carries over to the start of your next round.
  • To hit and damage bonuses from Charge, Leaping Strike, and Shock Trooper, only apply to the one attack made on your turn.

The bonus damage from charge, leap attack, and shock trooper does not persist until the start of your next round, only the penalties to AC does.

Charge

You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

"On the attack" signifies that the bonus to attack modifier is singular, and only applies to the attack at the end of the change. The -2 penalty however, persists until the start of your next turn.

Leap Attack

...This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the Jump skill and for making a charge, except that you ignore rough terrain in any squares you jump over.

Again in leap attack we find a singular designator specifically telling us that the bonus damage only applies to the one attack you get to make during the round following the charge / leap.

Heedless Charge (Shock Trooper):

... In addition to normal charge modifiers (which give you a -2 penalty to AC and a +2 bonus on the attack roll), you can assign any portion of the attack roll penalty from Power Attack to your Armor Class instead, up to a maximum equal to your base attack bonus.

Again we find that singular attack reference. Meaning that any bonuses we acquire for this one attack are temporary and do not persist after making this one attack. Restoring power attack to its original functionality following the event.

Penalties to AC persist, as expressly described in charge attack.

Karmic strike is a non issue for carry over, as its a -4 to armor class for a chance of an opportunity strike and does not factor into this stack beyond the ac penalty.


There is an argument to be made that since you "traded" the power attack penalty for an AC penalty on your heedless charge, you have fundamentally changed the mechanics of power attack, allowing you to effectively trade AC for damage bonuses for the purposes of opportunity attacks.

This requires a loop hole style reading of a clear sequence of events. Mechanically the interaction (suspension of the power attack penalties) is attached to the temporary side of the charge function. So once the attack is completed, the removal of the power attack penalty goes away, but the penalty to AC persists.

But as stated earlier, the bonus damage from charge and leaping strike do not persist past the singular attack made on your turn as part of the charge.

So at the end of your turn, through the start of your next turn:

  • -5 to all attack rolls
  • +10 to all damage rolls (Two handed power attack, otherwise +5)
  • -11 to Armor class
  • One additional attack of opportunity if you are hit.
\$\endgroup\$
3
  • \$\begingroup\$ Heedless charge used in this way is still a very good use of your action, its just not as over powered as some people believe it to be. The extremely low AC resulted from karmic strike, still gives you an additional power attack to accelerate HP trading after such a powerful initiation. Hopefully shortening the overall number of combat turns and ensuring you get something out of an incomming opponents attack. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 17 at 6:01
  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ Your conclusion about Heedless Charge looks wrong to me. The parenthetical is a reminder of the normal effects of charging, and so its use of "the attack roll" is only relevant to the charge action. If you remove the reminder, the rules text does not support your conclusion. \$\endgroup\$
    – darch
    Jul 17 at 20:27
  • \$\begingroup\$ Only when taken in isolation. But it still says "In addition to normal charge..." Signifying the penalty trade is part of the normal charge bonuses / penalty system. But the parenthesis were put in, to remind you that this is an extension of the charge mechanic and attack bonuses are temp. As I stated - it is a loop hole reading, meaning you are choosing parsing to get the desired result. No argument that the reading is there, I just don't feel it is the correct one. And that answer goes against popular convention (Everyone wants more damage for "Free" or in a dump stat. Maximizing synergy.) \$\endgroup\$ Jul 17 at 22:27
0
\$\begingroup\$

Charge: No

You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll [that you make at the end of the charge]

This bonus doesn’t persist after you’ve made “the attack” from the end of the charge. Your attacks of opportunity thereafter definitely don’t qualify.

If you have pounce, it is an open question whether or not your full-attack at the end of a charge gets this bonus on all attacks—see this Q&A for details. But attacks of opportunity are definitely out.

Power Attack: Yes

The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

This is pretty straightforward: it explicitly says the penalty and damage apply until your next turn, so they do. You get these effects on your attacks of opportunity.

Leap Attack: Yes

you deal +100% the normal bonus damage from your use of the Power Attack feat

Since your bonus damage from Power Attack persist until your next turn, and this bonus applies to that bonus, this also applies until your next turn. So yes, for the round after using Leap Attack, your attacks of opportunity do increased damage.

Note that the conditions for successfully triggering Leap Attack:

If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target,

require you to do certain things on your turn. This timing requirement does not apply any restriction to the benefit gained thereafter, however—if you do this thing, then you get the increased Power Attack damage.

Shock Trooper’s heedless charge: Not entirely clear, but probably Yes

Heedless Charge: To use this maneuver, you must charge and make the attack at the end of the charge using your Power Attack feat. The penalty you take on your attack roll must be -5 or worse. In addition to normal charge modifiers (which give you a -2 penalty to AC and a +2 bonus on the attack roll), you can assign any portion of the attack roll penalty from Power Attack to your Armor Class instead, up to a maximum equal to your base attack bonus.

So the thing here is, we are both charging and using Power Attack. The modifications from those effects have different durations, as discussed above. You definitely have to charge in order to be allowed to use this option, but it’s not clear what is being modified here: the charge, or the Power Attack. Considering that the actual option is to move your Power Attack attack penalty to AC, it seems to me much more likely that what we’re modifying here is the Power Attack—and therefore the modification applies as long as Power Attack does, i.e. until your next turn. However, the same sentence also says “In addition to normal charge modifiers,” which could maybe suggest that these are special “charge modifiers” and therefore only apply as long as the charge does. My reading here is that it’s more likely that this is just providing a reminder and confirming that these changes stack with those from a regular charge, but there’s no way to confirm that.

Conclusion

You are correct, or arguably correct, in your analysis. The charge modifiers do not persist, Power Attack and Leap Attack’s modifiers do, and those from heedless charge also persist I think. That corresponds to the −11 AC penalty, +0 attack bonus, +15 damage bonus you list. If heedless charge is limited to just the charge, however, then you are looking at just −2 AC from the charge and −4 from Karmic Strike, so only −6 AC, but also −5 attack.

\$\endgroup\$
8
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ My primary argument against this ruling is that none of the sub-feats (Leap att., Heedless Charge) give a direct statement duration for the bonuses to damage, instead each reference the base mechanic of charge. Arguably, since there is no duration listed to the "3x Damage" aspect of leap attack, all power attacking after that point (leap attack or no) deals triple damage so long as you have activated leap attack sometime in your career... the point I'm trying to make is that one is deliberately choosing a duration that is not referenced at all in the stated text while charge is the reference. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 20 at 18:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ Just note I've not -1'ed this answer. It explains the popular (but in my opinion flawed) reading of the skill interactions. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 20 at 18:05
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @PlayPatrice As I have said, for Leap Attack that’s not valid: it modified the Power Attack damage bonus, so its modifications are to Power Attack and last as long as that damage bonus does. The fact that you trigger it by charging is irrelevant, and there is nothing in the feat that can be used to argue that it is in any way limited to that charge. On that, I think you are simply wrong. Heedless charge is more debatable. I think the case for Power Attack timing is stronger that the case for charge timing, but my answer acknowledges the opposite possibility. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jul 20 at 18:16
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @PlayPatrice Fair enough; done. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jul 20 at 19:07
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ I think @PlayPatrice is right about the wording of the feat Leap Attack: it suggests that the bonus only refers to a single attack ("one devastating attack", "This attack"). - Which also makes sense, from a logical point of view: it’s the impact of the jump that leads to the additional damage. So this impact should only be in effect for an attack that follows directly after the jump/charge. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 21 at 11:33

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.