I'm here today because I was wanting to get feedback on a few adjustments I've done to the Fighter subclass: Champion.


The motivation behind these alterations is to streamline some clunky text that unfairly punishes a player not planning out their character's development 7+ levels ahead (which goes against the simplicity that the subclass gives) and to give extra durability to a class not as dependent on rests.

The reason these are present is that (1) Remarkable Athlete actually becomes less effective when you invest in athlete related stuff, which can feel really bad for those that make that mistake. And (2) the subclass needs longer periods between rests to shine and doesn't get any defensive or utility methods to achieve this until level 10 (and only if you are able to choose the Defense or Protection fighting styles). And (3) getting only one thing at level 3 when a lot of other Fighter subclasses get two is disappointing.

That being said, its simplicity is a huge appeal that I don't want to majorly impact if possible with these alterations nor do I want to unintentionally introduce stranger than expected features.

(I left out Champion features which I had not altered for ease of understanding. So the subclass would still have the extra critical range and health Regeneration)


The 1st feature, "Fighting Spirit", allows the Champion to gain Temporary hit points equal to its fighter level at the beginning of combat. This helps get the longevity going in a hopefully non-intrusive, non-abusable manner. Only issue is this might become tedious for players looking to not juggle resources.

Fighting Spirit

At 3rd level, when you roll initiative, gain temporary hit points equal to your fighter level.

The 2nd feature, "Remarkable Athlete", I wanted this feature to avoid punishing specific at character generation decisions, so the 2 skills being chosen will either be non-physical skills that get half the bonus or they are Proficient skills that get a Proficiency Bonus multiplied by 1.5. Does the current wording promote this or is better wording required?

Remarkable Athlete

Starting at 7th level, select two skills from the Starting Proficiencies of this class. You may add half your Proficiency bonus (round up) to those two skills and any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check you make that doesn’t already use your Proficiency Bonus. If your already or later become proficient with one or both of these two skills, you may instead increase the Proficiency Bonus added by half.

In addition, your jumping distance increases by a number of feet equal to your proficiency bonus.

At the level 10 spot, I wanted to give the Player a choice between favoring short fights or protracted ones, but am unsure how this plays out. Are Tenacious Spirit and Determined Spirit balanced?

Additional Fighting Style

At 10th level, you can choose a second option from the Fighting Style class feature as well as one of the following:

  • Determined Fighting Spirit: When you roll initiative, you gain double your Fighter level in Temporary hit point
  • Tenacious Fighting Spirit: You gain Temporary hit points equal to half your Fighter level at the beginning of your turn instead of when you roll initiative.

Desired input

What I'm looking to be answered with this post are the following:

  • Does each alteration achieve what I've stated?
  • Are the alterations balanced individually and all together?
  • Do these changes make multi-class dips to good or just tedious?
  • If there is an unbalanced feature or combination thereof, what makes it/them so?
  • \$\begingroup\$ Hi Joe! I like what you have done with these alterations. However, this site is typically used for rules questions. Currently, it seems you are asking for a homebrew review, which while this site does, your question is a bit vague. Would you consider moving this to chat (chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/11/trpg-general-chat)? \$\endgroup\$ Nov 25, 2021 at 20:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ Which parts are too vague? I'd be happy to clarify, but not sure of where it needs help. This is somewhat homebrew, though it more slightly modifies and adds 2/3 features to an existing subclass. So wasn't sure if it's closer to a house rule (which can be extensive) or homebrew. The spot that you linked, I'm not too familiar with it, is that where homebrew is suppose to be put? \$\endgroup\$
    – Joe D.
    Nov 25, 2021 at 21:21
  • \$\begingroup\$ The spot I linked is just a chat room filled with friendly people :). As far as what is vague, it seems you are asking multiple questions and it is somewhat subjective, as is all homebrew. Homebrew reviews on this site are somewhat controversial as no one can agree on whether or not they should be allowed, so I usually just post in chat. Disclaimer: I am not an expert, I may be wrong. :) \$\endgroup\$ Nov 25, 2021 at 21:56
  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ I'd say it's perfectly fine to post as is and that Role-playing Games Chat is also a good resource in these sorts of situations. \$\endgroup\$
    – nitsua60
    Nov 26, 2021 at 0:14
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks for showing that spot, will keep it in mind for the future. As to the multiple questions, they're more being explicit about what I was looking for in potential answers since I've experienced that frustration before. Plus they all relate specifically to the alterations. Though, I can see where subjectivity can step in but not much I can do about that sadly. \$\endgroup\$
    – Joe D.
    Nov 26, 2021 at 11:28

1 Answer 1


You really like temporary hit points, don't you?

All jokes aside here's my review of each of your points:

Fighting spirit - helps get the longevity going in a hopefully non-intrusive, non-abusable manner

Seems balanced to me, altough a bit tedious. Depending on how experienced your player(s) are going to be, it might be a bit of a hassle remembering to change your hit points at the beginning of each fight.

Remarkable athlete - avoid punishing specific at character generation decisions

Great idea but I find the wording a bit confusing. I'd reword it as follows:

At 7th level, you gain the following benefits:

  • Pick two skills from the Fighter Class's initial proficiencies. You can add half your proficiency bonus (round up) to any check made with those skills. If you are already proficient or you gain proficiency later on with either ability, you may instead increase the Proficiency Bonus added by half.
  • You can add half your proficiency bonus (round up) to any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check you make that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus.
  • When you make a running long jump, the distance you can cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Strength modifier.

Additionally, if you plan to make the subclass more appealing outside combat you could consider changing the first point with Expertise with one or two skills. This may or may not be balanced depending on what sources you allow. Keep in mind that with Tasha's and UAs even Ranger and Barbarian get some kind of Expertise, so giving it to a Fighter could work out.

Alternatively, if Expertise seems too overpowered to you, you could also restrict the two additional proficiencies to skills with which the character doesn't have proproficiency with. This would give the character a wider range of skills he is good with, which I'd say, lines up with your initial objective.

Additional Fighting Style - give the Player a choice between favoring short fights or protracted ones

This is a tough one. I'd say Determined spirit is a bit underwhelming while Tenacious spirit is definitely overpowered. Five (or even more) temporary HP at the beginning of every turn means a Heroism spell permanently cast on you. Additionally, if you plan to keep the subclass's ease of use, having your player constantly change their temporary HPs is probably something you'd want to avoid.

Can't really think of any alternative here, though. Instead of giving the character temporary hit points with two features you could think of something else entirely. Maybe something involving their Bonus Action, which Fighters generally have little use for (except for Second Wind, which happens only once). Or maybe granting them Advantage in some particular circumstance, besides flanking. Or yet again, giving them some bonus to their Initiative roll, such as the ability to add an ability score to it (or maybe half their Proficiency Bonus). You have many other bonuses you can play with, aside from temporary hit points.

In conclusion, I'd say your ideas for 1st and 7th level are pretty cool but you should work more on the 10th level one. I'd suggest you to re-think your goal as well for this one, as "choosing the length of a fight" is usually something a player has little control over.

About multiclassing, Champion is already a useful dip for many builds, but your 3rd level feature shouldn't be too broken in a multiclassing scenario (3 temporary HP isn't gamebreaking) and multiclassing up to 7th level wouldn't really be worth it IMO.

I hope this helps, have fun!

  • \$\begingroup\$ That I do! They're handy. Fighting Spirit is kinda similar to a lot of capstone's (in regards to getting a benefit when rolling for initiative) and is a bit less onry than the hit point reg at level 15. I like the wording you did for Remarkable Athlete, though thinking I'll avoid giving Expertise cause that feels less iconic to me. In regards to the Determined vs Tenacious, it takes 4 rounds of combat for Tenacious to match Determined and it's all but guaranteed you took some damage to your health with Tenacious in that time. So not seeing the brokenness personally \$\endgroup\$
    – Joe D.
    Nov 26, 2021 at 11:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ I didn't want to add much to the Champion in regards to damage. In regards to Determined/Tenacious, tediousness is the only thing that really worries me. In my head though, those that want to not worry about it as much can go Determined, but I'll look into it more to see if there is something else to be done. Also, as a lv 10 ability, getting half a 1st LV spell permanently doesn't seem too strong. Fun fact, RA grants an Initiative bonus. Until I can think of something thematically evocative, I'll keep Determined/Tenacious since I like the behaviour it would encourage. And this did help! \$\endgroup\$
    – Joe D.
    Nov 26, 2021 at 11:59

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