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I am a vampire player and currently own a ghoul.

I would like to evolve my ghoul but I can't find the rules concerning her evolution(XP).

I saw that she could have more discipline, and that we could teach them but I see nothing in terms of experience (XP).

I'm playing V20 Dark Age and V20 masquerade.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Are they the ghouls of your PC, or SPCs? \$\endgroup\$
    – Akixkisu
    Dec 21, 2021 at 9:44

2 Answers 2

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There are no rules

There are no rules to the progression of NPCs. Their stats are wholly under the control of the GM and the narrative.

If the Ghoul was a PC, they'd pay the exact same experience costs as a Vampire but have some limits.

In my games...

As a GM, I had generally considered that mortal NPCs make progress to a new dot in a skill/... or discipline in about one to three months per experience that would be spent (depending on the method, need for the trait, and aptitude) and would never raise anything above two without there being an exceptional reason - 2 is already a professional worker in a field that can earn their living with it. This helped to keep the NPC power level in check and not have runaway stats: It reserves the high ranks for people like Ruth Bader Ginsburg (Law 5) and still gives a Paralegal (Law 1-2) or small lawyer (Law 2-3) enough to shine.

Bottom Line

Talk to your GM, propose what you do to train your Ghoul in what, and have them decide on it.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Do you have access to V20 Ghouls & Revenants? I was sure there was something in there. But I could also misremember or have a different edition in mind. \$\endgroup\$
    – Akixkisu
    Dec 21, 2021 at 9:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Akixkisu I have, but that is for PC Ghouls. \$\endgroup\$
    – Trish
    Dec 21, 2021 at 9:52
  • \$\begingroup\$ Didn't it also have spc progression? There is something there in my mind, but like I said I might misremember, could also just be a completely different material that is on my mind - it has been a while. \$\endgroup\$
    – Akixkisu
    Dec 21, 2021 at 9:57
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    \$\begingroup\$ it does not have any rules for SPCs, only lots of tone guidance. \$\endgroup\$
    – Trish
    Dec 21, 2021 at 9:58
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(Note: the rows of the experience tables have been re-arranged for easier comparison - the original order varies between the supplements)

V20 Core rulebook

The rules for playing ghouls are in the appendix, pages 496-506. The relevant page for experience costs is 499:

Trait Cost
New Ability 3
Ability current rating x 2
Attribute current rating x 4
Humanity current rating x 2
Virtue current rating x 2**
Willpower current rating
New Discipline 20
New Path (Necromancyor Thaumaturgy) 20 (Clan ghouls only)
Clan/Family Discipline current level x 15*
Other Discipline current level x 25*
Secondary Path (Necromancy or Thaumaturgy) current level x 15 (Clan ghouls only)

* A vassal gets a cost break on the Clan Disciplines of her first domitor, regardless of the domitor’s actual Disciplines. So, while a Toreador may know Dominate, his ghoul still pays current level x 25 for it. An independent gets a cost break on Celerity, Fortitude, and Potence. A revenant gets a cost break on her family’s Disciplines. A vassal who leaves a vampire’s service is treated as an independent from that point on, while an independent who becomes blood bound to a domitor is treated as a vassal.

** Increasing a Virtue through experience does not increase Traits based on that Virtue (Humanity, Willpower).

V20 Ghouls and Revenant supplement

This is the modern supplement for ghoul characters. Includes more rules and deeper explanation of how they interact.

Chapter 5 (page 115-141) deals with character creation. Page 140 has the experience costs. Of note is that Attribute cost has been changed from x4 in the core book to x5

Trait Cost
New Ability 3
Ability current rating x 2
Attribute current rating x 5
Humanity current rating x 2
Virtue current rating x 2
Willpower current rating
New Discipline 20
New Thaumaturgy Path 20 (Tremere ghouls only)
Clan/Family Discipline* current level x 15*
Other Discipline** current level x 25**
Thaumaturgy Path current level x 15

* As a general rule, a ghoul attains a cost break to learn the Disciplines of her sponsor’s Clan. A revenant, on the other hand, earns a cost break on her family’s Disciplines.

** It is much more difficult for independent ghouls to learn Disciplines than any other ghoul or revenant, and this is reflected in the cost required.

Ghouls: Fatal Addiction supplement

For an older source about ghouls, you can also see the Ghouls: Fatal Addiction supplement published in 1997 (catalogue number WW 02021, ISBN 1-56504-230-1). It includes in-universe discussions about ghouls as well as more rules and explanations about them - how they operate both in terms of being as well as society. The information is synthesised in later publications in various forms but fluff sections about ghouls can still be interesting to read.

Chapter 3 (pages 69-85) deals with character creation. The experience chart is on page 85 and it is mostly in-line with V20 Ghouls and Revenants Attribute x5 rather than the x4 in V20:

Trait Cost
New Ability 3
Ability current rating x 2
Attribute current rating x 5
Humanity current rating x 2
Virtue current rating x 2
Willpower current rating
New Thaumaturgy Path 20 (Tremere ghouls only)
New Discipline 20
Clan/Family Discipline * current level x 15
Other Discipline current level x 25
Thaumaturgy Path current level x 15 (Tremere ghouls only)

* As a general rule, a vassal gets a cost break on the actual Disciplines of her first domitor's clan (so, while a Toreador may know Dominate, it is not considered a clan Discipline for purposes of experience points). A revenant gets a cost break on the Disciplines of her family, while an independent gets a cost break on Potence, Celerity and Fortitude.

A vassal who leaves a vampire's service is treated as an independent from that point on, while an independent who becomes Blood Bound to a domitor is treated as a vassal. So, yes, it is possible for an enterprising player to "minmax" this system - but the dire ramifications of dealing with the Kindred in this fashion should make the point moot.

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