The synergy that I want to understand is if you can catapult an object that is the point of a spell, like 'Cloud of Daggers' on your enemy.

  1. Find any object near your enemy or throw anything at him: e.g Pebble, Dagger, Dirty underwear, etc.
  2. Cast 'Cloud of Daggers' on that object.
  3. Enemy is sh*tting bricks, because of Daggers cutting him and he runs away.
  4. Cast 'Catapult' on the object that is the 'Point' of your spell and launches it, together with the spell, at the enemy again.
  5. Repeat step 3.

I've roamed the whole wilderness of the internet, but could not find anything better than the link below.

Can Catapult be used on Delayed Blast Fireball?

This trick, definitely, might work with 'Darkness', because the spell description mentions it.

So! My reasoning is this: If it were to make a parallel to our real world, then The Point of a spell, is something like a source of your magic. Just like The Shell of the Smoke Grenade is the source of the Smoke. Or like The Speaker of your headset, is the source of the sound.

This means throwing the source - it takes along the effect.

Please share your wisdom here. Thanks in advance.

P.S. Below you can find quotes of the spell descriptions.


If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it.


Choose one object weighing 1 to 5 pounds within range that isn’t being worn or carried. The object flies in a straight line up to 90 feet in a direction you choose before falling to the ground, stopping early if it impacts against a solid surface. If the object would strike a creature, that creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the object strikes the target and stops moving. When the object strikes something, the object and what it strikes each take 3d8 bludgeoning damage.

Cloud of Daggers

You fill the air with spinning daggers in a cube 5 feet on each side, centered on a point you choose within range. A creature takes 4d4 slashing damage when it enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there.


1 Answer 1


It doesn't work this way

The PHB on p.201 says about targeting spells:

Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.

That means if you pick a "point in space" that happens to be on an object, and then throw that object, the point remains where it is. It does not move with the object. For that to happen the origin of the spell would need to be the object.

Delayed Blast Fireball is special in that it allows you to create a pebble that can be thrown, and that then can explode into a fireball. Likewise, Darkness (as you cite) explicitly states that you can pick a point on an object, and the darkness will move with it. Cloud of Daggers has no such language, and therefore does not do that.

Spells only do what they say they do.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Following your logic, if I cast a spell on a ship, then the spell moves along with water or the planet? \$\endgroup\$
    – user75393
    Feb 14, 2022 at 23:11
  • 8
    \$\begingroup\$ @Eugene, I think this is a valid objection but D&D is not a physics simulation about relativity. Likewise, if the planet the PCs are on is moving, will the area stay absolutely in place, while the planet flies on? Nope. For practical play, if you cast cloud of daggers on a ship, and the ship is what is drawn on your battlemap, that is where the cloud will be for the rest of the fight. It won't move relative to the area you play in. \$\endgroup\$ Feb 14, 2022 at 23:17
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ A useful point of comparison would be the Darkness and Daylight spells, which can specifically have the "point" be an object and then the effect moves with the object, but it requires significant text to give it that ability. \$\endgroup\$ Feb 15, 2022 at 4:17
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Related: What happens when an Immovable Rod is activated while in a vehicle? - Thanks to Mołot \$\endgroup\$ Feb 15, 2022 at 6:33
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Somewhat related on the discussion of relative motion and framing: Is Tiny Hut relative to ground or surface that it's on? \$\endgroup\$ Feb 15, 2022 at 14:30

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