The Clan weakness of the Assamites was, starting with the Convention of Thorns till the modern nights, the Tremere Curse:

Due to the Tremere blood-curse, should an Assamite consume the blood of another Kindred, she suffers one automatic level of unsoakable lethal damage per blood point imbibed. Diablerie attempts result in automatic aggravated damage, one health level per point of permanent Willpower the victim possesses; the would-be diablerist gains no benefits (including Generation reduction) if he survives the process. In addition, Assamites must tithe some of the profits from their contracts to their sires or superiors (generally around 10 percent of all such earnings). 1

This is written to quite obviously make it impossible to drink any Vitae, be they Assamite, Camarilla or not. However, the Convention of Thorns itself, and the Treaty of Tyre both have a notable exception:

From this night forward, the Assamites shall henceforth no longer commit diablerie on members of other clans. The Assamites must commit themselves to this acceptance by a mark of assurance placed on them in the form of a Thaumaturgical limitation. All member of the Assamites shall become unable to drink freely of the vitae of other Kindred from now unto forever. 2

In fact, the Convention text is quite specific, that Assamites may freely Diablerize their own and those clans not in the Camarilla - which are for example Baali, Nagaraja, and Salubrii, but also in modern night's the Sabbat:

Assamites are also granted, out of respect of their beliefs, the freedom to commit diablerie within their own clan without restraint and the right to commit diablerie upon all Kindred not recognized as holding membership within the Camarilla.3

Three years after the convention, the Treaty of Tyre was signed, which is only fragmentary available. The extracts known lack that passage.

The Clan Assamite shall refrain from taking the Blood of other Kindred, and as surety of this provision shall submit themselves to a ritual to be administered by the Elders of the Clan Tremere, whereby Kindred Blood shall be made poisonous to them 4

Both of these do say other clans, not Assamites drinking from Assamites. Indeed the Convention explicitly carves the exception that they should be able to feed on each other as well as those vampires not in the Camarilla.

As a result, we got a Crunch-Fluff conflict: The Fluff says, that the Tremere should have only barred drinking from non-Assamite vampires, that are in the camarilla. The Crunch says, drinking from any Vampire, including Assamites, is poisonous.

So... did Tremere botch their Blood-Curse, just forgot to have that exclusion as dictated by the Convention of Thorns, or was this violation of the treaty text a deliberate act?

1 - V20 Core, p.49.
2 - V20 Anarchs Unbound, p.133, Left column: Convention of Thorns.
3 - V20 Anarchs Unbound, p.133, Left column: Convention of Thorns.
4 - V20 Anarchs Unbound, p.133, Right column: Treaty of Tyre.

  • \$\begingroup\$ I think there's a missing detail that may help (me and others) evaluate this question and its answers; is there a particular issue this discrepancy is causing for you/your group? Or is this purely an interest into the origin of a quirk? \$\endgroup\$
    – Someone_Evil
    Commented Aug 11, 2022 at 14:15
  • \$\begingroup\$ As the flaw is worded, it has impacts on Assamites beyond diablerie, such as Blood bonding them being frickin painful (of the victim) - and it's mostly a Lore Dive to find a stated IC reason for the quirk. \$\endgroup\$
    – Trish
    Commented Aug 11, 2022 at 14:25

1 Answer 1


The fluff is phrased as it is mostly to inform and assuage the fears of non-Assamites over the very real terror unbound Assamites caused. "From the wrath of the northmen protect us", kind of deal. The fluff is how the Convention of Thorns "presented"/"sold" the solution to the rest of Kindred society, not the crunchy solution Tremere managed to enforce (until Ur-Shulgi awoke).

Basically, "you are safe now, we fixed things". Politician-speech directed at voters. Not exactly unexpected from high-ranking vampires.

Most of the fluff is left vague and open to interpretation on purpose. This is White Wolf, they thrive on ambiguities. I have personal experience in interpreting the World of Darkness, as a Storyteller since the 90s, but you have already found good enough references for what hard information exists. The rest is up to you.

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ How does this answer the question if it was deliberate, mistake, or just laziness (like, "we should add exception but won't bother")? \$\endgroup\$
    – Trish
    Commented Aug 11, 2022 at 13:04
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Fluff is fluff, it's the in-universe explanations. I cannot, nor can anyone else, say whether or not it was deliberate on part of Tremere. I am claiming that, in my own interpretation of the fluff, I have judged the crunch to be "the way Tremere could make it work" and the fluff to be "how the Convention of Thorns sold it to the rest of Kindred society". \$\endgroup\$
    – From
    Commented Aug 11, 2022 at 13:12
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ This seems like effectively a frame challenge for the question's assumptions, which feels like a fair enough answer here. \$\endgroup\$
    – brandon
    Commented Aug 11, 2022 at 14:15
  • \$\begingroup\$ This contradicts with the lore insofar, that the Convention of Thorns was October 18th to 24th of 1493, 3 years before the Treaty of Tyre 1496. Both were written before the Tremere did the ritual, the latter just a short time - days to at worst weeks. \$\endgroup\$
    – Trish
    Commented Aug 11, 2022 at 14:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ Apparently, I missed a relevant paragraph from the CoT: the explicit allowance to diablerize non camarilla. \$\endgroup\$
    – Trish
    Commented Aug 11, 2022 at 14:55

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