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I have been theory-crafting a character for an lv20 one-shot that I'll be playing in. We have been allowed 1 magic item of each type. I plan on making a Monk / Fighter Multiclass. Basic so far I know. But when looking at the magic item I planned on taking for my legendary spot being the Gloves of Soul Catching, which state:

Your Constitution score is 20 while you wear these gloves. This property of the gloves has no effect on you if your Constitution is already 20 or higher.

After making a successful unarmed strike while wearing these gloves, you can use the gloves to deal an extra 2d10 force damage to the target, and you regain a number of hit points equal to the force damage dealt. Alternatively, instead of regaining hit points in this way, you can choose to gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw you make before the end of your next turn.

After reading this description I began wondering how this magic item would work with a Warlock's Eldritch Invocation: Gift of The Ever-Living Ones, which states:

Whenever you regain hit points while your familiar is within 100 feet of you, treat any dice rolled to determine the hit points you regain as having rolled their maximum value for you.

The way I'm understanding this is that the Extra 2d10 force damage for the Gloves of Soul Catching also determines the amount of Hit points I regain. Both the damage and the Amount healed are Maxed out Because of the Gift of the Ever-Living Ones "treat any dice rolled to determine the hit points you regain as having rolled their maximum value".

Does this Work RAW, and make a mean brawler with a healing factor or am I just missing something?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Related, possibly a duplicate: "Does Beacon of Hope benefit Vampiric Touch's healing?" \$\endgroup\$ Oct 2, 2022 at 19:04
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    \$\begingroup\$ I don't think the edit to the title is great. I think the OP's intention is much more concerned with maxing the healing than the damage. \$\endgroup\$
    – Sam Dean
    Oct 3, 2022 at 13:55
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    \$\begingroup\$ @SamDean "Both the damage and the Amount healed are Maxed out Because of the Gift of the Ever-Living Ones [...] Does this Work RAW, and make a mean brawler with a healing factor" so it's asking about both \$\endgroup\$ Oct 4, 2022 at 10:43
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Exempt-Medic: Yeah, the new title is pretty good, if long. Sometimes it's better to be clear than short. The original title "Can I Heal for The Damage I Deal?" is catchy but near useless so it needed some edit: Yes, of course you can heal for however much damage you actually deal, that's what the gloves say they do. But the question was whether the invocation has any effect on that, either doing more damage or just healing max without dealing max. (Which is fortunately what the answers are addressing.) \$\endgroup\$ Oct 4, 2022 at 15:14

7 Answers 7

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No, because you're not rolling for healing

Admittedly, Thomas' answer is the best advice. But the mixture of features do not play out the way you think.

The gloves' description states:

you can use the gloves to deal an extra 2d10 force damage to the target, and you regain a number of hit points equal to the force damage dealt.

You are rolling to determine damage. But you are not rolling dice to heal. The healing is just a value that is equal to that damage. To that point, you would still be rolling the same dice even if you didn't heal and chose Advantage instead.

This is similar to the Enervation spell:

Whenever the spell deals damage to a target, you regain hit points equal to half the amount of necrotic damage the target takes.

Both heal, but the dice you roll do not directly heal. They are for damage.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Good answer; this is how I read it too! It might be helpful to re-quote the Invocation too, to show how the language differs? \$\endgroup\$ Oct 3, 2022 at 5:31
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    \$\begingroup\$ I think, if we are strictly sticking to the text, the invocation states: "treat ANY diced rolled to determine the hit points you regain..." which technically include the damage dice you rolled. If we are picky we could even argue that the attack roll is one of those dice as well. On that aspect I think that @DaleM answer is more correct and that the fact that it only changer "for you" is important. However, it still is the DM's call and I think it's fit to apply this one way or another depending on what kind of games he wants to be leading. \$\endgroup\$
    – LNiederha
    Oct 3, 2022 at 10:09
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    \$\begingroup\$ The dice roll itself does not determine the healing you receive. That healing depends on the damage you inflict, which may be modified by resistances, weaknesses and other damage modifiers. By that logic, you do not roll to heal. You roll to damage, inflict damage, then heal a fixed, non-rolled value equal to damage dealt. So this answer seems correct to me. \$\endgroup\$
    – Matthieu
    Oct 3, 2022 at 10:19
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Matthieu I'm a bit lost in the translation. the invocation says "treat any dice rolled to determine the hit points you regain as having rolled their maximum value for you." in this case, the Hit points I would regain are determined by the damage delt from the 2d10 force damage. we are on the same page there, but what confuses me is the treat Any Dice rolled part of the invocation. I'm not seeing how the 2d10 doesn't apply here. do they not give me my damage and the hit points I would regain, both being determined by the roll of the 2d10? \$\endgroup\$
    – Zinoma
    Oct 6, 2022 at 17:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Matthieu I think typing it out made me see what you were saying. the 2d10 determines the damage, damage determines the healing. no dice directly affect the healing on the gloves it's all from the damage if I got that right. then yeah I guess that does make sense, Thank You. \$\endgroup\$
    – Zinoma
    Oct 6, 2022 at 18:04
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You should ask the DM before the game so you can respect everyone else’s time.

I’m going to side step your question just a little bit, because the answer is that it’s ambiguous. It is the kind of ambiguous that is almost certain to waste game time if you spring this on the DM on your first turn of combat. They are the one who makes the final call on how this works. So if you want this to actually work, you need to convince them. And if you have made it to the table of play and are trying to use this combo the way you describe, it is far too late to spend time discussing it with the DM.

So your best shot of convincing the DM to allow this combo, and the thing that best respects everyone else’s time, is to work it out with the DM before the game when no one else has to sit and listen, and you can actually spend some time laying out whatever argument you want to make.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Exactly this. There is even a reading of that text that makes the attack roll be maximized (because it is a dice roll, and the result of that dice roll does determine in part how much you are healed) as well as the damage! On the other hand, there is the alternative reading shared by the other answers here, which I'd argue is more reasonable. But, it is fundamentally something the DM should be deciding. \$\endgroup\$
    – Yakk
    Oct 5, 2022 at 17:29
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No

… treat any dice rolled to determine the hit points you regain as having rolled their maximum value for you.

The damage dealt is whatever is rolled on 2d10. The damage healed is 20 - the maximum value for you.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Amused by the idea of two characters with these gloves and that invocation punching each other healthy after fights. "Conservation of HP" need not apply. (I agree this seems the RAW, to be clear, it's just a silly outcome, still up-voted) \$\endgroup\$ Oct 3, 2022 at 2:33
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    \$\begingroup\$ @ShadowRanger And what if you punch yourself? \$\endgroup\$ Oct 3, 2022 at 4:14
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    \$\begingroup\$ @DaleM I am only trying to parse the consequences of this interpretation of the rules as written. Although I do disagree with the fact that the damage roll, which is nothing more than a part of the calculation for damage, could be designated as a "dice rolled to determine the hit points you regain". By this logic, any dice that could even remotely influence this heal could qualify, no matter how many modifiers or other states their value goes through. \$\endgroup\$
    – Matthieu
    Oct 3, 2022 at 11:22
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    \$\begingroup\$ For instance, you couldn't have been healed if you didn't see the goblin you just punched. So without the perception check you just used to notice its presence, your heal would have been zero. By this definition, the perception check was used to determine the heal. \$\endgroup\$
    – Matthieu
    Oct 3, 2022 at 11:23
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Zinoma what I'm saying is, with the logic presented, any roll that had an effect on the healing could be considered as "dice rolled to determine the hit points you regain", which makes little sense. The example of the perception check is simple : if you fail the perception check, you never notice the goblin, thus never punch it and do not heal. Which means the perception check was used to determine the healing. \$\endgroup\$
    – Matthieu
    Oct 6, 2022 at 20:50
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This will be your DM's call

While the hit points you regain are equal to the damage dealt, the dice are rolled to deal an extra 2d10 force damage to the target.

  • You argue that the result of these dice rolls determines the amount of hit points you gain, and thus the dice are rolled to determine those.

  • One can likewise argue that these dice are not rolled to determine the hit points you regain, they are rolled to determine the damage you deal, and you then regain hit point even to the damage dealt.

The second reading is also supported by the fact that you could chose Advantage instead of gaining hit points (credit to MivaScott for pointing that out).

As there are no more specific rules on how to resolve this, in the end this will be up to the DM to determine.

(As for the title of your question: yes, you always heal for the amount of damage you deal if you have lost hit points you can regain. It's just not clear if the damage and hit points will be maximized.)

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RAW this probably won't work but no harm in asking your DM

The Gloves state that

After making a successful unarmed strike while wearing these gloves, you can use the gloves to deal an extra 2d10 force damage to the target, and you regain a number of hit points equal to the force damage dealt.

You do not roll to determine the hit points you regain here, you roll damage and then you regain the same amount of hit points as the damage you dealt. So in my opinion there is no space at all for the invocation here.

If your DM is especially generous, you might be able to get them to agree to let you max out the healing, under the interpretation that the 2d10 you rolled was for both the damage and the healing. Maxing out the damage though would be a hard "no" from me, it has nothing to do with the invocation and would be pushing it too far.

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Damage? No. Healing? ... it depends.

Chronological order of the events when using Gloves of Soul Catching:

  1. Roll 2d10.
  2. Deal damage equal to the value of the roll.
  3. Regain hit points equal to the damage dealt.

Gift of The Ever-Living Ones effect:

Whenever you regain hit points [...] treat any dice rolled to determine the hit points you regain as having rolled their maximum value

Ok. So, first of all: RAW, regained hit points here are not determined by rolled dice, but by the damage dealt — which may not even match the rolled value: Is there a difference between "damage taken" and "damage dealt"?
So, technically, those 2d10 were not "rolled to determine the [regained] hit points", thus the effect does not apply.

But let's say it does.

Even if we interpreted the rules as meaning that you regain hit points equal to the value of the 2d10 roll, the triggering condition ("whenever you regain hit points") happens on step 3 above — after the damage is dealt. So you roll 2d10, get a value of X, deal X damage, and then treat X as if it was a 20 instead (and regain 20 hit points).

This means that, when combining Gloves of Soul Catching with Gift of The Ever-Living Ones:

  • damage dealt will never be affected;
  • regained hit points may or may not be 20, depending on how your DM interprets "equal to the damage dealt".
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  • \$\begingroup\$ PS: I've never played D&D (nor any other RPG for that matter), but I've been around here reading great answers for so long, that I feel confident enough to try posting one myself. Of course, corrections are welcome. \$\endgroup\$
    – walen
    Oct 4, 2022 at 9:29
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Directly RAW no, because you roll for the damage and then the hp healed equals the damage.

However, you can still have fun with your monk/warlock multi class by using the Tasha's Mercy monk. It's class features include:

Hands of Healing

At 3rd level, your mystical touch can mend wounds. As an action, you can spend 1 ki point to touch a creature and restore a number of hit points equal to a roll of your Martial Arts die + your Wisdom modifier. When you use your Flurry of Blows, you can replace one of the unarmed strikes with a use of this feature without spending a ki point for the healing.

and

Flurry of Healing and Harm

Starting at 11th level, you can now mete out a flurry of comfort and hurt. When you use Flurry of Blows, you can now replace each of the unarmed strikes with a use of your Hands of Healing, without spending ki points for the healing.

There is no RAW limitation on the creature you touch not being yourself, so with the watchlist invocation, and since the monks martial arts die is 1d10 at lvl 17, you can heal yourself 10+wiz on every single one of your 4 flurry of blows attacks if needed. And still use the gloves RAW.

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