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Reversing aging is a vulgar effect(Page 509 MtA 20th Anniversary Edition) and it has a permanent effect. Considering both of these is similar to using enhancement to get an attribute past five dots, would reversing aging cause permanent paradox as well?

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There's a fine line between reversing age and just halting aging or considerably slowing it to extend the lifetime.

Aging backward

Aging backward is a Time-Life-Magick effect and is very vulgar. This can very much incur permanent paradox if the Storyteller wills it, especially if it becomes easily apparent: a 50-year-old person simply doesn't look 21. But someone 21 to 25 might still convince people that he just has a case of babyface to appear about 17-ish.

Only if you manage to make Leónisation something mainstream people totally accept, you can repeatedly jump into the fountain of youth and extend your life indefinitely and without paradox. Way to get a goal in the war for reality!

Slowing Aging

A less intrusive way is to do the 'ageless monk' way of just slowing down the own body's aging. There's a sweetspot for old age, where there is little to no age that can be attributed to a person - somewhere in the 50s, it's really hard to guess the age of people. Extending the own age by just slowing the process of physical decay with Life-Magick while retaining a fitting look shouldn't incur a permanent paradox. The number of centenarians is steadily increasing, so the ageless person isn't breaking the wall of paradox... until they are way too old. The current limit when you might incur permanent paradox from overstepping the capacity of human possibility is about 120 years - the record is 122.

Afterward, you might accumulate permanent paradox at a Storyteller's fiat. That is, unless you manage to convince reality that humans don't die from age... or to make reality forget that you have an age in the first place.

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Yes, once you start to exceed a human lifespan.

Simply put, yes, magick that allows you to exceed a human lifespan causes you to begin accruing Permanent Paradox once you start exceeding a human lifespan. This is why all the centuries-old Arch-Mages live out in the Umbra, where they don't need to worry about this.

A possible exception would be various forms of reincarnation or cloning magick, since your original body does, in fact, grow old and die.

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    \$\begingroup\$ it's less the exceeding human lifetime but that reverse aging is vulgar to the sky and back \$\endgroup\$
    – Trish
    Nov 1, 2022 at 21:27
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Trish Reversing aging is vulgar, but the Paradox it generates isn't permanent until you start exceeding a normal human lifespan. \$\endgroup\$
    – nick012000
    Nov 1, 2022 at 22:10
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You haven't altered yourself beyond human limits, so no permanent paradox involved

I don't have MtA: 20th Anniversary Edition, but in the earlier editions, they make it clear for the Life 3 effect "Better Body" that permanent Paradox is a result of "changing a Pattern beyond normal limits" (where increasing attributes to six or more, adding inhuman features, or fortifying to soak aggravated wounds all count as such). By that definition, I don't see any reason why changing your age would involve permanent Paradox.

Being strong enough to lift a car at all times is an ongoing violation of reality, same goes for growing gills or having skin as tough as Kevlar; it doesn't matter if no one sees you change, you're violating reality just by existing. By contrast, your age at any given point in time is not an ongoing violation of reality. Sure, you'd get whacked by Paradox if you deaged in front of a crowd of Sleepers, and even without witnesses the actual deaging process itself is vulgar, but once it's done, merely "being 20" is not an obvious and ongoing violation of reality; permanent Paradox should not be involved.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Isn't going over ones lifespan going over normal limits considering humans aren't meant to live a hundred and fifty years? \$\endgroup\$ Nov 1, 2022 at 3:43
  • \$\begingroup\$ @MaikoChikyu: It's going to be a Storyteller judgment call, but in general, I'd say no. It's like using magic to heal; someone healing a fatal wound in front of witnesses is vulgar as hell, but once they're healed, they're just a healthy person. Reversing your age is vulgar as hell, but once it's done, you're just a person of that age, there's nothing inherently supernatural about your new state. People aren't meant to live that long, but people don't come with tags that state their real age (or at least, mages learn to get fake IDs pretty quick). \$\endgroup\$ Nov 1, 2022 at 10:27

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