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Reading all "kill the fission duplicate, end the power, and revive the duplicate via revivify or psionic revivify" stuff online, it made me realize that Fission's rejoining effect at the end of the duration is an overt action by the power to merge the two of you back together, and the timing is one time only and can be dodged.

So if you dodge the timing by manifesting Time Hop, is your duplicate permanent? Dodge the timing by

  1. Duplicate manifests Time Hop
  2. You dismiss Fission, ending it and forcing the rejoining effect to occur.
  3. Duplicate time hop ends.

or, if the DM thinks the duplicate has an active "fission" effect too,

  1. Manifest Time Hop yourself
  2. Duplicate's Fission duration lapses.
  3. You reappear.

When the duration expires or when you dismiss the power, you and your duplicate rejoin, no matter how far from each other you are.

If you hop forward in time, you don't exist. This is not a difference in distance right? Which means Fission has no ability to rejoin you because you or your duplicate is out of the power's reach.

On a side note,

All powers affecting a fissioned creature, either the original or the duplicate, end when the fission ends. All damage, including hit point damage, ability damage, ability drain, and ability burn damage, is added together.

Does this part of the effect happen to you? to both of you? to none of you? Does Time Hop let you dodge this?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ If this worked, why would you want it to? You're flushing a 7th-level power and half of your abilities for an unreliable lower-level adventurer with half your abilities and no magic items. You're a level 13 psion; there are easier ways to earn gp! \$\endgroup\$ Jun 16, 2023 at 14:27
  • \$\begingroup\$ The Fission duplicate is you with 2 negative levels so it's not half your abilities. And with Practiced Manifester the negative 2 levels are negated so you're left with a clone of yourself that just knows 2 less highest level powers as yourself. And the reason I want to do this is to field 2 Astral Constructs at once instead of only one. Spellcasters have planar binding, simulacrum, metamagic reducers + twin spell, etc. Gotta close the gap somehow. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 16, 2023 at 16:15
  • \$\begingroup\$ Fair enough. The fission power says, "You and your duplicate evenly split your power points, your remaining usages of pertinent special abilities for the day, and so on," so I'd confirm that you and the DM are on the same page about and so on. I'd also confirm that Practiced Manifester—that "can’t increase your manifester level higher than your Hit Dice"—helps with negative levels that each give you "–1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level)" (DMG 293); that may include computing your total HD. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 16, 2023 at 16:32
  • \$\begingroup\$ RE: "And the reason I want to do this is to field 2 Astral Constructs at once instead of only one." Why must the fissioned duplicate exist forevermore to do that? \$\endgroup\$ Jun 16, 2023 at 19:10
  • \$\begingroup\$ Comp Psi nerfed Astral Construct so that you can only have 1 out at a time. I've seen people try to rule lawyer it out citing primary source rule and all that but I don't really buy it. But thinking about someone's answer from my schism question, Fission might not let me bypass that restriction either. Maybe that'll be another question I ask. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 16, 2023 at 22:50

1 Answer 1

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Approach 1

As a potential approach, let's look at how Time Hop works.

The subject of the power hops forward in time 1 round for every manifester level you have. In effect, the subject seems to disappear in a shimmer of silver energy, then reappear after the duration of this power expires. The subject reappears in exactly the same orientation and condition as before. From the subject’s point of view, no time has passed at all.

So if we read it strictly with in-game language, the Time Hop is actually an effect that is added to the target by this power. The target is in "time hopping" status until the duration expires or until the Will save is passed.

And such an effect would be ended immediately when Fussion's duration expires because:

All powers affecting a fissioned creature, either the original or the duplicate, end when the fission ends.

Conclusion

No matter which one is being Time Hopped, once the duration of Fission ends, it ends all powers affecting either of you, including the Time Hop. As a result, the Time Hopped creature returns and the rejoin process begins.


Approach 2

Assuming Time Hopping makes you not exist currently.

Since you have Time Hopped yourself to the future, you do not exist when the power's duration ends. Hence, it triggers the following effect:

If your duplicate dies before the duration expires, no rejoining occurs, and you gain one negative level. If you die, your duplicate remains in existence, and is for all intents you, but with two negative levels. (Once the duration expires, one of the negative levels immediately converts to one lost level; the other negative level can be removed by standard means.)

So your duplicate becomes permanent but loses one of its levels instantly, and one negative level remains there.

When you come back, your connection with your duplicate is considered broken (since the duration has expired) and you take one negative level just like your duplicate has been killed.

Since no rejoining occurs, the damage is not transferred.

And the following description is for explaining the effect of rejoining. Since that never happens, nothing here would be applied.

All powers affecting a fissioned creature, either the original or the duplicate, end when the fission ends. All damage, including hit point damage, ability damage, ability drain, and ability burn damage, is added together.

Conclusion

After doing this, now you have you and another you with one level lower both existing on the table. If I am the DM, you will still be the "original you" and your duplicate will become an NPC that is out of your control (since the power's duration has ended and you have no link with it anymore).

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  • \$\begingroup\$ "Your duplicate thinks and acts exactly as you do and follows your orders, although it will not do anything you wouldn’t do yourself." I don't see that as some kind of ongoing mind control effect. I see that as a built in obedience function in the duplicate on creation. So him being an NPC is incorrect. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 17, 2023 at 0:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ @fuzzywuzzy1951 "If you die, your duplicate remains in existence, and is for all intents you, but with two negative levels." I wonder if "you" have a built-in property of following another "you"'s order (that is, from the point the duration expires, that duplicate is no longer a duplicate but "you", which means it can now get rid of all limitations and can even cast Fission again by himself). Besides, that's a game-balancing expansion on DM side to prevent PCs from abusing it. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 17, 2023 at 3:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ @fuzzywuzzy1951 Assuming the power expires and the duplicate still retains all the properties make it a duplicate (cannot cast Fussion, must listen to "you", etc.), then the issue is that this duplicate, which is now that player himself, has permanently lost the ability to manifest this power. And that's an unreasonable cost for using it. It should function more like a psionic version of Clone in this use case rather than forcing this player to get rid of that limitation through Wish or other strange ways. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 17, 2023 at 3:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ @TerryWindwalker I think this answer would be improved by moving the information about time hop to the beginning. You are 100% correct on that point: fission ending also ends the hop and wrecks the whole plan. (I'd also argue that time travel also does not cause creatures to cease to exist but to exist instead elsewhen, but you totally don't have to.) \$\endgroup\$ Jun 17, 2023 at 14:51
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    \$\begingroup\$ Reviewing what you said, I agree. Time Hop duration will expire upon fission's end no matter who is time hopped, killing the strategy entirely. It also has come to my attention that trying to make fission permanent does not work for a variety of reasons. Anyways thanks, I don't think I would've caught Time Hop not being treated as instantaneous if it weren't for you. \$\endgroup\$ Nov 4, 2023 at 22:09

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