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I am going down an undead theme, so I am making a Moroi-Born Dhampir Summoner and a Zombie-Shark Aquatic Base Form Eidolon.

The duo are to be front-line fighters. I want to focus heavily on the Shark theme for the Eidolon.

What feats should the Eidolon take? What types does it count as?
For example, does it count as an Aquatic Sub-Type given it's base form?

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1 Answer 1

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“Monster”

Do Eidolons count as monsters?

“Monster” isn’t a specific term used in the Pathfinder rules; whether or not a creature is a monster is really a matter of opinion and perspective, and either way won’t change anything about how the creature behaves. There are “monster rules” and “monster feats,” but these are just organizational categories: Pathfinder presumes that the “monster rules” and “monster feats” are more useful and relevant to the GM running monsters, and that players won’t need to worry about them, so they organize them away from other, more player-focused rules and feats, as a matter of convenience. But players can take monster feats (so long as they meet the prerequisites) and may have to consult the “monster” rules (which covers things like claws and venom and other abilities that most player characters lack but some player characters may get), and non-player characters can definitely use rules and take feats outside of the “monster” sections.

The terms that Pathfinder uses—interchangeably—are “creature” and “character.” These two words are completely synonymous: creatures are characters and characters are creatures. This is why the “monster rules” and “monster feats” aren’t really that important: Pathfinder attempts to produce a consistent world, where everything is following the same rules. This was something that D&D 3e (which Pathfinder 1e is based on, well, its “v.3.5 revision”) did that most games do not: earlier and later editions of D&D, even, have completely different rules for player characters and non-player characters.

Feats

What feats should the Eidolon take?

Eidolons can select any feat that they qualify for, but they must possess the appropriate appendages to use some feats.

(Eidolons → Feats)

Type

What types does it count as?

Eidolons are outsiders for the purpose of determining which spells affect them.

(Eidolons)

Aquatic subtype

does it count as an Aquatic Sub-Type given it [has the aquatic] base form?

Technically, no. Nothing says it does, despite the name “aquatic” being applied to both the base form and the subtype.

Furthermore, the aquatic subtype says

These creatures always have swim speeds and can move in water without making Swim checks. An aquatic creature can breathe water. It cannot breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality. Aquatic creatures always treat Swim as a class skill.

(Creatures Types → Subtypes → Aqautic)

An aquatic eidolon can still breathe air, so the aquatic subtype doesn’t describe an aquatic eidolon perfectly. On the other hand, an aquatic eidolon does have a swim speed and can breathe water, thanks to its gills and swim (2) evolutions. Having those abilities, and the ability to breathe air, would be equivalent to having the aquatic and amphibious subtypes. The eidolon technically does not—and could not meet prerequisites requiring either of those things—but that might be something to talk to your GM about, because the eidolon effectively has them, and things that require them would probably be appropriate to such an eidolon.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ "completely different rules" is a bit of an overstatement. Some different rules, yes. ...earlier and later editions of D&D, even, have completely different rules for player characters and non-player characters (that nitpick aside, I like this answer and I don't even play PF) \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 27 at 17:50
  • \$\begingroup\$ @KorvinStarmast Fair enough, though I don’t really know of a good way to “quantify” the amount of separation within the rules that they have. It’s pretty substantial compared to 3.x-derived systems. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Commented Feb 27 at 19:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ I would say "have some different rules" since with each other non-3.x edition the amount varies. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 27 at 19:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @KorvinStarmast That doesn’t even begin to capture the magnitude of the difference. It’s a completely different philosophy of design. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Commented Feb 27 at 21:06

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