I'm looking for the exact number of "-to hit", if attacking one of my allies, that would be applied. I'm creating a Psion/Swordmage hybrid and I'm wondering what my collective debuffs would be under various situations. My big concern is I don't entirely know how my feats and my summoned creatures interact with the stacking of negatives. I will have the following feats: psychic lock (phb1) & mark of warding (Ebberon phb). I have the following paragon path: Dreamwalker (phb3)

What would be the total -to hit if I cast Dishearten(unaugmented) & I have the monster marked by swordmage shield aegis mark (forgotten realms phb)?

What would be the total -to hit if I had attacked a creature with my summoned creature "Summon Phantasmal Killer" (PP page 90) and hit with his standard melee attack?

Lastly, what would be the total -to hit if I had caste Dishearten (unaugmented) on the creature I had previously marked with my Swordmage shield aegis & then my summoned creature from my paragon path Dreamwalker called "True Dream Form" did his instinctive effect: casting dishearten himself on the same creature?

  • \$\begingroup\$ Bonuses & penalties always stack unless they have the same type (power, item, enhancement, etc.) or they come from the same named game element (so if you hit a guy with Dishearten, action point, then hit him with Dishearten again, the penalties from Dishearten don't stack). \$\endgroup\$
    – Oblivious Sage
    Mar 3 '13 at 16:45
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ObliviousSage penalties are almost never typed (I can't think of a case where they are right off the top of my head). \$\endgroup\$
    – wax eagle
    Mar 3 '13 at 23:21

Well let's look at all of these one by one and we'll evaluate things as they come up.

The first thing you need to know though is that debuffs always stack unless they are coming form the same power. With that in mind let's look at at each power you've mentioned and inspect it individually.

The first one that we need to look at is the mark generated by the swordmage's aegis. All marks have the same debuff, -2 to hit any ally when they attack with a power that does not include you.

Psychic Lock inflicts a -2 penalty to the next attack roll. This stacks with the mark.

Mark of warding makes your mark a -3 instead of a -2. So attacking the target of your Aegis with a psychic power inflicts a total of -5 to attacks against your allies that don't include you, and a -2 against you, for their next attack.

Dishearten unaugmented against the target of your Aegis would have a net effect of inflicting a -7 penalty on his first attack against someone not you, -5 on subsequent attacks not you, -4 on the first attack vs you, and -2 on subsequent attacks against you during the round. Not your aegis is -4 on first attack, -2 on subsequent attacks during the round, regardless of target.

Phantasmal Killer has an identical effect against as above to your Aegis target.

The final case will have the same result as the debuffs from Dishearten do not stack. (the net -4 on first attack, and -2 on subsequent attacks do not add as they both come from the Dishearten power). Were you to find a different psionic psychic power that debuffs (say Mind Wipe) that would stack, though you would not benefit from psychic lock the second time.

  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm planning on accepting your answer, but before I do I just want to confirm that my phantasmal killer attacking gets the -2 to hit from my psychic lock as you said "...it has the same effect as my dishearten above". This is important to my build as I'm thinking of taking a power "oni gift" that will weaken me but I'm hoping it won't affect my summoned creature's attack. So ultimately I just want clarification that my psychic lock feat will affect only me, or if it will include my summons (as I assume oni's gift would have the same rules apply). \$\endgroup\$ Mar 3 '13 at 6:52
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    \$\begingroup\$ @wmanfro your summon benefits (your still making the attack) from psychic lock. Weaken affects your summon's attacks (your still making the attack). "the summoner makes an attack through the creature, as specified in the power description." \$\endgroup\$
    – wax eagle
    Mar 3 '13 at 12:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks that cleared up the debate in my head about summoned creatures. \$\endgroup\$ Mar 3 '13 at 21:22

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