I'm creating a setting for a Kindred of the East chronicle and I'm not sure how many discipline points or virtues characters should have.

There was an old trick in V:tM that consisted in giving an NPC a number of discipline dots equal to the square root of the vampire's age. But Cathayans' disciplines are more expensive, so it sounds unfair to apply the same methods. Plus, a Cathayan character usually expends more experience in her virtues than a Kindred.

I am wondering if there is any guide to the experience a vampire should have based on her age. I know active characters should have more XP than passive ones, and I'm going to apply that, but I'm looking for the regular vampire rating.


2 Answers 2


I do not know if there exist rules for elder Kuei-Jin chargen. So I'll try to summarize the Kin-jin (Kindred) rules.

This one is from Dark Ages: Vampire which, methinks, has the latest incarnation of downtime maturation rules.

The basic idea is that in downtime characters are much less active than when blood flows freely.

Characters get Maturation points based on the time spent in any given downtime period, as below.

  • 1-5 years -> 1 per year (1-5 pts)
  • 6-35 years -> 1 per 5 years (6-10 pts)
  • 36-135 years -> 1 per 10 years (11-20 pts)
  • 136-500 years -> 1 per 20 years (21-40 pts)
  • 501-750 years -> 1 per 25 years (41-50 pts)
  • 751+ years -> 1 per 30 years (51+ pts)

Maturation Points (MPs) may be spent at basically the same rates as XPs. But for elder vampires (above 200 years), XP costs increase (but MP costs don't).

It is very complicated, and is even more so as Maturation Point gains and costs depend on the character's activity level in any given century/decade. You should check out the Dark Ages: Storyteller's Companion, pp. 69-75.

If you want less complexity, you can design elders from scratch as you would a neonate, just with more points. The rules are also in the same book, on pp. 75-77. Summary is as follows:

  • Attributes: 10 / 7 / 5 (above the free rating of 1 in each)
  • Abilities: 20 / 12 / 8
  • Advantages: 10 Discipline dots (min. half in clan), 15 Background dost, 7 Virtue dots (above the free rating of 1 in each), base generation is 9th
  • Road rating (Humanity, what-have-you) is decreased by 1 for every 150 years of activity
  • Freebies: 30 pts for a basic elder of 201-350 years, plus 15 pts for every 150 years of beingg active (meaning loss of Road)

Now, as to the Kuei-Jin, you may proceed with the XP-MP method, which is quite straightforward, as XP is XP in both on the East and the West side.

If you go with the chargen-build method, Attributes, Abilities, Backgrounds and freebies should be as above for Kindred, and I'd give 7 free dots in Disciplines, 6 for Chi Virtues and 2 for Soul Virtues (and the free basic dots as for young characters). And then spend the truckload of freebies as per the KotE core book. I checked some elder Kuei-Jin NPCs in the Tokyo and Hong Kong books, and their freebie levels (very approximative) seem to take them to the upper echelons of their corresponding dharmic age ranges.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks for the interesting answer. I knew about MPs, but I thought it was a way to represent how PCs progress when a significant lapse of time is passed. I didn't know it worked also for NPCs. I'll check it, thanks. MPs depending on character activity is perfect, as I have some lazy and some active characters. \$\endgroup\$
    – Flamma
    Commented Apr 12, 2013 at 7:22

KoE Disciplines cost the same amount for the first dot (10 XP), but the cost is increased for the subsequent ones (8 XP per dot), which is 60% more than the vampires pay for an in-clan Discipline (5 XP per dot) and around 14% more than the vampires pay for the out-of-clan Disciplines (7 XP per dot).

I don't know much about the KoE, but, granted that a character of a given age has the same amount of XP as a vampire of that age, you can:

  • Presume that roughly the same amount of it goes to the Disciplines
  • Calculate the expected amount of dots as per normal vampire
  • Cut this down by something between 0% and 60%. This point might actually be very, very hard, because vampires of different ages typically have different percentages of their XP invested in Disciplines, and vampires of older age typically learn more out-of-clan Disciplines, which are more expensive. For example, a typical shovelhead has 4 dots even though their age is 0 years, all of the dots will be distributed among the in-clan Disciplines. At the same time, a 121-year-old Sabbat ancilla will have 11 dots, 7 of which were bought with experience, and a few dots are likely out-of-clan.

    So, for a very young KoE, don't cut anything, for a mature one, this could be something around 20% (?) because the rule of thumb from the vampire book presumes a lot of Disciplines bought at an increased price.

Anyway, take note that this rule exists for the idle characters. Not for your PCs, and very likely not for their main antagonists (page 79 of V20).


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