My group and I firmly consider the Autumn Court's Mantle (see Changeling: the Lost) to be both sub-par and insulting in its mechanical implementation, especially considering that Autumn, as the Court of sorcerers and mystics, has a Mantle that does not help them with either consideration. As a result, we wish to create a fix for the Mantle that will help Autumn live up to that reputation ("showing" to go along with the fluff's "telling") as well as place it on par with Spring, Summer, and/or Winter. So: Are the following changes to the Autumn Mantle on par, mechanically, with the other three Seasonal Mantles?

Mantle (Autumn) 1: The character gains a new specialty in either Empathy or Investigation as her connection to fear and mystery finds its first flowers.

Mantle (Autumn) 3: The character grows more adept at resisting sorceries of all varieties; she gains a +1 die bonus on all rolls to resist supernatural powers or influences (such as a Hedgespun poison or a vampire's dominate discipline). If one or more of her traits would be applied as a penalty to a power's activation, treat those traits as being one higher.

Mantle (Autumn) 5: The character is a savant of terror and sorcery, and Autumn's final blessing fuels both; she may spend an additional point of Glamour per turn, above and beyond the normal limits imposed by her Wyrd.

  • \$\begingroup\$ i'll point out that the normal/vanilla bonuses are pretty good as far as "sorcerer/mystic" goes. one-dot gives a bonus to occult-based contracts, three-dot gives a bonus to investigating anything relating to Fae or empathizing with those who have dealt with them, and five-dot allows them to re-roll any failed non-contract occult roll. these allow them to use mystical/magical powers easier, investigate and learn about their greatest foe (in line with autumn's steryotype of being spies/scouts), and allows them easier rolls relating to magical knowledge. \$\endgroup\$
    – acolyte
    Jun 18, 2013 at 15:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ Obviously I disagree, especially considering how few Contract rolls involve Occult. I'll gladly invite you to chat to discuss it further. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 18, 2013 at 15:24
  • \$\begingroup\$ sadly, chat doesn't work while i'm in the office. But are you intending the autumn court to fulfill the "mage" archetype from other RPG's? \$\endgroup\$
    – acolyte
    Jun 18, 2013 at 15:36
  • \$\begingroup\$ Partially, but these bonuses also help them fulfill other archetypes. For example, a Paladin of Shadows (Lords of Summer) in service to Autumn could use Track as his free Investigation specialty, still makes great use of the third-dot bonus (coming at his enemies like an implacable slasher) and can use the additional Glamour-per-turn to fuel things like the Ogre seeming blessing, to fire off Contracts of Stone to enhance his strength, or more. Not a "mage", but still very Autumn and still making great use of Autumn-like tactics and terror. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 18, 2013 at 15:38
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    \$\begingroup\$ I suggest that being able to hold more Glamour is more in line than being able to spend more Glamour, possibly with a bonus to growing Goblin Fruits? It is the harvest season. \$\endgroup\$ Aug 7, 2013 at 7:58

2 Answers 2


The one-dot ability is slightly more powerful than that of other Seasonal Mantles. Unlike the other, fairly narrow applications, an Empathy or Investigation specialty is quite likely to come up, and can be customized to the character to be made even more effective.

The three-dot ability is on par with that of other Seasonal Mantles. Well balanced and good.

The five-dot ability is quite a bit more powerful than that of other Seasonal Mantles. Spending an additional Glamour is quite potent, and out of line with the other gifts. Additional ability to hold glamour, as @cartomancer suggests in the commentary, would be more in line, or you could craft another benefit, or go forward with it in the knowledge that the Autumn Mantle is a touch overpowered.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Hrm. Can you elaborate on why you feel that the five-dot ability is more powerful than, say, Mantle (Summer) 5? \$\endgroup\$ Sep 29, 2013 at 16:15
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Lord_Gareth The extra health level will only come up in fights, and then only once per fight -- once it's filled, it isn't really relevant unless it's healed and filled again. Spending an additional Glamour per turn is not only useful out of combat, it's useful each turn that the combat lasts if need be. Active benefits are generally more powerful than defensive ones to begin with: a +1 AC is less powerful than +1 to hit, and more powerful than +1 (or 3, or 5) extra hit points. \$\endgroup\$
    – Jadasc
    Oct 2, 2013 at 14:26
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    \$\begingroup\$ I think it is more powerful, but not alot more powerful. Consider by the time you have reached mantle 5, you are already prob at least wyrd 3 or 4 if not much higher. meaning that activating contracts is not an issue of restricted glamour. So at this point the primary use of extra glamour per turn is for using your seeming blessing to get +1 to attributes. A possible fix if desired might be to restrict the extra point to only being used during contract activation. So you could activate a contract, and buff your attributes, but not just buff your attributes to 1 point higher \$\endgroup\$ Dec 16, 2013 at 6:52

Presently I am only weighing it mechanically, although if I may offer my opinion the RAW version seems plenty mystical to me. However! That has nothing to do with the question so here goes:

  1. This strikes me as giving a character the RAW rank 3 ability at rank 1, as the RAW3 is essentially a free specialty with True Fae and Faerie but you're giving the homebrew (HB) version any specialty they want and at entry level the only tradeoff is that with RAW3 a character can still buy the specialty in addition where HB1 only affects one skill. Where it could pale to the RAW1 is that it's only one die, but again the ability to choose kinda washes off the intensity of bonus.

  2. Mechanically I can see this one as balanced enough when compared to RAW 3, although I do have to wonder if this is supposed to be a safety net for some NPC because you use these things often?

  3. This one has a very sliding scale of power. If a character decides to dump their points into Mantle and more or less ignore their Wyrd, they are getting two advantages in one and that can be abused quickly. A level 1 Wyrd doubles their Glamour usage cap albeit it would be worthless to a sorcerous character to have it this low. Even still in the more "mundane" (for lack of a more appropriate term) levels, say up to level 6 when things get interesting, it's still quite a powerful opening. To this end, I may recommend forcing the character to spend a point of Willpower to activate this ability to bring it back to middle.


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