Okay, I have some questions about making a hybrid character, but I'll list my character's stats and abilities before I get to my questions:

Warforged Ranger|Fighter Hybrid (dual-weapon specialist)
Lvl. 2
STR: 19 (17 + 2), CON: 16(14 + 2), DEX: 18, INT: 15, WIS: 17, CHA: 16
HP: 34( 13 + 16 CON score & Toughness +5 bonus), Bloodied: 18, Surge Value: 9, Surges per day: 10 (7 + 3 CON Modifier)
Weapons: 2 x Short Sword, Armor: Leather
Class Features (Fighter): Combat Challenge, Fighter Weapon Talent (1-handed weapons), Tempest Technique*.
Class Features (Ranger): Hunter's Quarry, Two-Blade Fighting Style.
* Added by Hybrid Talent Feat.
Feats: Hybrid Talent (Tempest Technique), Toughness, Two-Weapon Defense, & Lethal Hunter.
At-Wills: Mauler's Rush (Rngr) & Dual Strike (Fghtr)
Lvl. 1 Encounter: Funneling Fury (Fghtr)
Lvl. 1 Daily: Jaws of the Wolf (Rngr)
Lvl. 2 Utility: Begin the Hunt (Rngr)

Okay, here's the questions:

First, did I calculate the HP stats correctly? I went with doing half of each class's starting value and rounded down as shown in the Fighter/Cleric example for calculating HP gained per level in Player's Handbook three. It doesn't say to do half of each starting value anywhere except in the Fighter/Cleric example, and I thought that the full values would make him too overpowered, so I went with the rounded-down half values.

Second, My understanding of Combining Fighter Weapon Talent (choosing 1+handed Weapons), with Tempest Technique (using the Short swords, which have the off-hand classification) would give me a +2 to attack rolls. If that is so, would I really need the Ranger's Two-Blade Fighting Style? Is it needed for the Ranger two-melee weapon required powers, or should I go for a different class feature, like Prime Shot (for a potential +3 to attack rolls)?

Lastly, I see that many of the later powers I want are Ranger-oriented (mostly the Daily attacks). Must I keep an even balance of Fighter vs. Ranger powers as I go up in levels, or does the balance only apply to the early levels? For example, I want Lvl. 15 through 29 Daily powers that are all Ranger powers. Must my Lvl. 13 and beyond Encounter powers be all Fighter Encounter powers only?) Also, do the Utility powers also figure into this somehow?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Edit1: Also, does the Tempest Technique +2 damage bonus apply to both of my Short Swords, and if so, is that on every melee attack I use, weather basic or power attacks that use the melee keyword?

Edit2: And 1 extra question: Fighter gives +2 Fortitude and Ranger gives +1 Fortitude and +1 Reflex. Should I round down the Fighter Fortitude bonus to 1 for +2 Fort. and +1 Ref., or +3 Fort. and +1 Ref.?

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @waxeagle, While I agree hybrids are much easier to create with the character builder, not everyone has the disposable income to afford it. \$\endgroup\$
    – Brian S
    Apr 10, 2014 at 13:44

1 Answer 1


Do you have access to PHB3? That has the actual rules for making hybrid characters, which you don't seem to have read fully. It also has the specific entries for hybrid fighters and hybrid rangers telling you exactly what they get.

General Stuff

Your ability scores are absurdly high. You might check with your DM to make sure you're doing it right, but plenty of groups do roll ability scores so lucky rolling or friendly rules could give those stats.

You can't have both the Toughness bonus feat and the Two-Weapon Defense bonus feat. See the section of my answer about fighter talents for more details.

Hybrid Rules

Hybrid characters don't use the base classes' entries and then round some numbers down; they have their own class entries in the section of PHB3 that covers hybrid characters. You pick the two hybrid class entries for the classes you want to combine and add them together.

The hybrid fighter class entry is on page 144 of PHB3, and the hybrid ranger class entry is on page 147-148 of PHB3.


Hybrid fighters get 7.5hp at level 1, 3hp/lvl, and 4.5 surges. Hybrid rangers get 6hp at level 1, 2.5hp/lvl, and 3 surges. Adding those numbers together plus the extra Con Score hp at 1st level, then rounding down since 4e ignores halves, gives us the following.

Hybrid fighter|ranger: 13 + Constitution hp at 1st lvl, 5hp/lvl, 7+con surges

Thus at level 2 with a 16 Con and the Toughness feat you should have 39hp and 10 surges.

Fighter Talents

Hybrids don't get all the class features that their parent classes get. The only class features a hybrid fighter|ranger gets automatically are the hybrid version of Combat Challenge and the hybrid version of Hunter's Quarry.

You can't combine One-Handed Weapon Talent with Tempest Technique. Taking the Hybrid Talent feat allows you to pick a feature off the Hybrid Talent lists for fighter and ranger; you apparently chose Fighter Combat Talent, which lets you pick one combat talent. Thus you can pick either One-Handed Weapon Talent or Tempest Technique, not both.

If you used Hybrid Talent to get the Fighter Combat Talent feature then you can't get Prime Shot or Two-Blade Fighting Style from the ranger. As a hybrid you don't get them automatically; Hybrid Talent is the only way to acquire them.

Remember: You can only take the Hybrid Talent feat once. If you choose to paragon hybrid instead of taking a paragon path you get the feat again as a bonus feat at level 11, but that's the only way to get it twice, and twice is the limit.

Class Features

From the comments you added it looks like you're having trouble with this concept. Hybrids don't get all the class features their parent classes have, and sometimes when they do get a class feature they get a weaker hybrid version of it.

A hybrid fighter|ranger starts with exactly two features: Hybrid Combat Challenge (which only marks enemies you attack with a fighter power), and Hybrid Hunter's Quarry (which can only add its bonus damage to an attack with a ranger power or a basic attack). You do not get any other class features. Pure rangers get the Fighting Style class feature, you don't. Pure rangers get the Prime Shot class feature, you don't. Pure fighters get the Combat Superiority class feature, you don't. Pure fighters get the Fighter Weapon Talent class feature, you don't. You may, by taking the Hybrid Talent feat (which you can only do once) choose one of those class features to gain. If that class feature offers a choice (for example, the Fighter Weapon Talent class feature lets you pick one of One-handed Weapon Talent, Two-Handed Weapon Talent, Tempest Technique, Brawler Style, Battlerager Vigor, or Arena Training), you still only get one.

Choosing Powers

The rule for hybrid characters choosing powers is that once you have 2+ powers of a given type (at-will/encounter/daily/utility), you have to have at least one from each of your parent classes. So once you hit level 3 you have to have a fighter encounter power and a ranger encounter power; when you start trading out powers later on you can trade out & take whichever powers you like, as long as you always have at least one ranger encounter power and at least one fighter encounter power. Once you hit level 5 you always have to have at least one fighter daily power and at least one ranger daily power. Once you hit level 6 you always have to have at least one fighter utility power and at least one ranger utility power.

See the section "Gaining Additional Powers" on pages 135-136 of PHB3.

Tempest Technique

Yes, Tempest Technique's damage bonus applies to all melee and close attacks with the weapon keyword as long as you're dual-wielding and wearing light armor or chainmail.

Non-AC Defenses

As with HP, you don't guess from the base class entry, you go look up the specific rules for hybrid fighters and hybrid rangers. Hybrid fighters get +1 fort, while hybrid rangers get their choice of +1 fort or +1 refl. Thus you can have +2 fort or +1 fort +1 refl.

Hybrid Optimization

If you're following the rules, it's very easy to make a weak hybrid and very hard to make a strong one. When you make a hybrid character, compare that character to a single-class character of the same level. If your hybrid seems to be better off and you're not a character optimization expert, that's usually a sign that you've broken the rules somehow.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Okay, so to rephrase in my own words so I understand the class-feature Hybrid choice clearly, you only get one choice period at the start from one class or the other, not one from each. If I want Weapon Talent for a +1 atk to my Short swords and another +1 atk to them from Tempest Technique, I need to take the Hybrid Talent feat and make Tempest Tech. my choice of second talent. \$\endgroup\$
    – John W
    Aug 10, 2013 at 16:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ And I do have PHB3, but the Hybrid area sounds confusing despite re-reading several times, so I wanted clarification here. I think my mistake was not using the starting class stats in the Hybrid area as I had only glanced at them and thought they were the same as in the normal class chapters in the handbooks, so thanks for pointing that out to me. I did indeed get lucky stat rolls and my DM is a very liberal one who mainly wants us to have fun, so he doesn't mind stats that are somewhat high, but I can reduce some stats to make it fairer for other players, if he wants me to. \$\endgroup\$
    – John W
    Aug 10, 2013 at 17:02
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ @JohnW Please, please ignore the main fighter & ranger class entries in PHB1. You only get the benefits listed in the hybrid fighter and hybrid ranger sections in PHB3. You CANNOT ever have both the One-handed Weapon Talent and the Tempest Technique; not as a pure fighter, and certainly not as a hybrid fighter. They both come from the same class feature, Fighter Weapon Talent, and there's no way to have more than one Fighter Weapon Talent. Hybrid fighters do NOT get Fighter Weapon Talent for free; they have to take the Hybrid Talent feat just to get one Fighter Wpn Talent. \$\endgroup\$
    – Oblivious Sage
    Aug 10, 2013 at 17:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ @JohnW Please see the "Class Features" section I just added to my answer. \$\endgroup\$
    – Oblivious Sage
    Aug 10, 2013 at 17:26
  • \$\begingroup\$ So if I want +2 atk, I should go with Tempest Technique and choose the Hybrid Talent feat and specify Prime Shot from the Ranger class Ranger Combat Talent (and forego the Two-Blade Fighting Style from the Ranger Fighting Style) for the Hybrid Talent? \$\endgroup\$
    – John W
    Aug 10, 2013 at 17:30

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