I've read How Does the Master Craftsman feat work? but I'm having difficulty with some of it.

I want to make sure I'm doing this right. Let's say I have a rogue who wants to craft wondrous items.

  • At level 5 he takes master craftsman (requires minimum of 5 ranks in craft)
  • At level 7 he takes craft wondrous item (next possible feat level)
  • He wants to craft a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2

    Construction Requirements
    Craft Wondrous Item, Cat's Grace; Cost 2,000 gp (+2), 8,000 gp (+4), 18,000 gp (+6)

  • First he pays the 2,000 gp

  • Then we assume 4 days have passed (1d/1,000gp of market price)
  • Then he rolls his check to see if he suceeded:

    1d20 + 7 (maxed out craft) + 2 (master craftsmen) + 3 (misc modifier for being a class skill) + 2 (intelligence modifier) = 1d20 + 14

  • His DC is

    5 + 8 (caster level of item) + 5 (for not being able to cast cat's grace) = 18

  • It is reasonable that this character can 'take 10' for a roll of 24 vs DC 18 = success

  1. Are all of these calculations correct?
  2. Does a +4 or +6 item just costing more money and time? (same CL)
  3. As a rogue can I use a scroll to help lower a DC level and use a Use Magic Device check for a success on the scroll use
  4. Can I use a wizard friend to cast the spell to lower the DC?
  5. Does that make the earliest level for a non caster 7 to craft magical items?

4 Answers 4


It is reasonable that this character can 'take 10' for a roll

Yes you can always take 10 when not in combat or your life is not in danger.

Are all of these calculations correct?

They seem to be in order.

Does a +4 or +6 item just costing more money and time? (same CL)

In the case of belts / headbands, this seems to be the case. Note that Weapons and Armor have different rules (3x modifier).

Can I use a scroll? Can I use a Wizard friend?

Take a look at the Cooperative Crafting text here. The basic answer is yes.

The details are:

  1. They must be present for the whole time.
  2. They are casting that spell each day during the process.
  3. If they are an NPC, they are charging each day.

Clearly if you wanted to do this with scrolls, you could, but you would need to expend the scroll every day you are crafting. At 150gp * 4 days, that's pretty expensive.

Does that make the earliest level for a non caster 7 to craft magical items?

  • There are classes with odd bonus feat progressions such that you could get two feats at level 5 and spend them both. For example, the Psychic Warrior has this.
  • I guess you could also "not take" a feat at 3rd level and then spend them both at 5th level. I'm not sure if there are explicit prohibitions against this.
  • There's also the concept of "re-training" of feats as allowed by some DMs (see comments)
  • In general 7th level is the minimum for magical crafting without magical crafting abilities.
  • \$\begingroup\$ I know 3.5 explicitly said you had to take feats the level you got them, you couldn't save them. Almost certainly is stated somewhere in Pathfinder too, not to mention its implied by the way you get them ("*At Xth level, *) \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Jan 14, 2014 at 5:14
  • 3
    \$\begingroup\$ @KRyan However, you can take a throwaway feat at 3 and retrain it at 5, assuming your DM is using the retraining rules. You don't have to retrain a feat into something you could have taken at that level; once you've taken the feat you can basically ignore which level you got it at, so you can get two level 5 feats by retraining a level 1 or 3 feat. \$\endgroup\$ Jan 14, 2014 at 17:30

There is one trait called Toilcrafter that would allow you to take the Craft Magic Weapons and Armor feat at level 3 (and craft them), though you would still need the Master Crafter feat to fully use the crafting (trait only allows doing +1 weapons or armor).

  • \$\begingroup\$ This would be a better answer if you worked through the calculations at relevant levels for the DCs with this trait. \$\endgroup\$
    – user17995
    Aug 12, 2016 at 1:07

In accordance with The Ultimate Campaign book's "Downtime" rules you may get whatever feat you wish at 3rd level and retrain your feats at any point after, making 5th level the earliest possible without some class that allows additional noncombat feats.

The Downtime rules allow for almost anything to be retrained which in the end leaves the decision to the DM. I know a lot of people that have issues with the options in The Ultimate Campaign, even I use only some as some options can overpower or completely rewrite a character almost from scratch if left unchecked. In any case the rules do exist and they are written there for those who are ok with the options.

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to RPG.se! Please take a look at the tour; it's a useful introduction to the site. This is really a comment, not a full answer. With a bit more rep, you will be able to post comments. In the meantime, consider fleshing this out to answer the whole question, not just one part of it. \$\endgroup\$ Sep 15, 2015 at 2:29

As to question 2 I see all magic items as having the same level restrictions for each iteration of an item the caster level increases by 3. So a cloak of charisma +2 requires caster level 8 for the +2, 11 for a +4, and 14 for a +6 and so on. If you look at the NPC guide this seems to be carried into the NPC's presented there in because several of the NPC adventurers in that guide who are level 20 have magic items which are only a +2 or +3 while killing the things which would allow an adventurer to reach that level would give them hundreds of thousands of gold with which to buy magic items. Add to that the game accounts for 20th level wizards or clerics making magic items in any metropolis and it leaves one with the impression that a major wondrous item obviously requires a higher caster level to create than a minor one. As it states in the core book logic must dictate a GM's choice in all things when it comes to pathfinder they leave rules vague concerning a lot of things in the system for this very reason. So that a GM and the players can shape the rules to there own version of logic.


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