If a Wraith uses the arts of Embody or Puppetry, can he still perceive the Shadowlands even if they are at the other side of the Shroud?

A skinriding Wraith can't see what it wants, but only what the host is looking at, right? But if another Wraith is in the line of vision, would the skinrider be able to view it?

EDIT: I have found this quote in Spectre's Puppetry equivalent: Corruption

Soul Leech: Soul leech is the Spectral art of possession. [...] Spectres who have possessed a victim using Soul Leech see through his eyes (and are thus able to see the Skinlands), but lose their ghost vision. Spectres using Soul Leech should otherwise be treated as Skinriding users of the Puppetry Arcanos, including their vulnerability to electroshock treatments.

Doomslayers: into the Labyrinth pg 124

I'm not sure because I am not a native English speaker, but "otherwise", emphasized by me, seems to imply that Wraiths do not lose their ghost vision.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Regarding your edit: I don't have access to Spectres: Dark Reflections, so I don't know if "ghost vision" is a power that spectres have that wraiths do not. I still believe that my answer is correct, based on my experience with the line as a whole. You're right, however, about the implication; I simply think it's a poor choice of words on the author's part. \$\endgroup\$
    – Jadasc
    Feb 12, 2014 at 21:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc Ok, thanks. I must pointed out I forgot to put the source, and it's "Doomslayers: into the Labyrinth". Spectres have "Deathsight", "Deathsense" and "Dimmed senses", but nothing named "ghost sight", I think they are referring to the capacity of viewing what happens on the Shadowlands and Underworld. \$\endgroup\$
    – Flamma
    Feb 12, 2014 at 22:14

1 Answer 1


Using the arts of Embody or Puppetry moves the wraith from one side of the Shroud to the other, and Wraiths are not visible from this side. You have access to Lifesight and Deathsight, since those are inherent to wraiths, so I'd permit it with a test to pierce the Shroud, but not as a matter of course.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Excuse my bad English understanding. You mean that if the Wraith uses its Lifesight or Deathsight you would allow a roll to see ghosts or other Shadowlands features? Which roll? Do you know if there is a book that explicitly explains that using those arts you lose sight of the Shadowlands? \$\endgroup\$
    – Flamma
    Feb 8, 2014 at 1:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Flamma There's no book that explicitly says it that I've found, but my reasoning is this: wraiths can see wraiths not because they have a power that lets them do so, like a "sense ghost" ability, but because they exist in the same plane of being. They can see them with their eyes in the Shadowlands because that's where they are. Once they leave the Shadowlands, they cannot see wraiths any more than they could see any other kind of spirit entity, or the astral plane. \$\endgroup\$
    – Jadasc
    Feb 8, 2014 at 4:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Flamma The same roll one would make to act across the shroud, based on its difficulty. \$\endgroup\$
    – Jadasc
    Feb 8, 2014 at 4:57
  • \$\begingroup\$ Your reasoning makes sense, and actually I ruled that way in the last game. But my problem is: I have a player who had Puppetry 1 and he only can skinride. I let him roll (Perception+Conscience) to see across the Shroud because I thought that Puppetry 1 was quite limited in itself. I didn't found a word about it in the basic book, so I thought I maybe in some book it was better explained. Which roll would you make when someone is skinriding, then, Perception + Puppetry? \$\endgroup\$
    – Flamma
    Feb 8, 2014 at 15:23

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