Arcane Reach allows you to target a close burst or blast starting 2 squares away from you. Thunderwave pushes each target in a close blast 3.

The wizard chose his origin square and wanted the thunderwave to point back at himself. Is this allowed? Or is the push still determined from the wizard's square?

As to why? Well, he desperately needed to get out of his own Wall of Fire. Kids, be careful around fire!


2 Answers 2


The consensus on the forums seems to be... unclear. I think the best response is this post:

Glossary definitions from PHB (for Arcane Reach) and Essentials (for origin square and push).

Arcane Reach: When using a close arcane attack power, you can choose a square within 2 squares of yours as the origin square. The power still follows the rules for close attacks.
Push (forced movement): Pushing a target means that each square of the forced movement must move the target farther away from the creature or effect that is pushing it.
Origin Square: The square where an effect originates. Every power has an origin square. A power's attack or utility type determines the origin square's location.

By RAW, you would push the target away from the origin square.

So if you used Thunderwave (a close blast 3) and decide that the origin square is 2 squares away from you (from the Arcane Reach feat), then any creature pushed with Thunderwave would be pushed away from the origin square (2 squares away).

Which also supports logic "origin from any square 2 squares away, thus you can attack yourself from the target line: Target: Each creature in blast, as you're a creature.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Does this mean then that the target is yourself? Are you allowed to self-target with attack powers? \$\endgroup\$
    – Rob
    Jun 12, 2012 at 14:16
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ No, the "target" is not yourself, but you count as a creature such that if a power that would not otherwise target you targets you (via arcane reach) you are a valid target for that power. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 12, 2012 at 14:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ Self-targetting with attack powers is an interesting question. I urge you to ask that as a proper question. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 12, 2012 at 14:36

In my opinion? That's a clever solution, it's cool, and I would let it fly. DM fiat is a spectacular solution to unclear problems like this. Is it Rules As Written? Maybe not. But it works for me.

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    \$\begingroup\$ I totally let it fly! However, in D&D4 there is usually a "right" answer. As a group, we've decided to abide by the DM's call during game night and then search for the "right" answer after. \$\endgroup\$
    – Pat Ludwig
    Oct 13, 2010 at 16:07
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ah, that makes sense. \$\endgroup\$ Oct 15, 2010 at 14:12

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