I've been told that Werewolves can peek into Earth from the Umbra. Also, I was told that they can distinctly perceive magical and supernatural effects that are present in the area they're observing.

How would a Garou perceive a Cainite that's under the effect of Obfuscation while in the Umbra?

(I'm referring to level 2: Unseen Presence)

Would it be able to completely bypass the discipline's effect?
Would it be compelled to look away from the obfuscated cainite?


They wouldn't.

As is detailed in the 20th anniversary edition of Werewolf: the Apocalypse, most sentient beings (barring Awakened mages) aren't visible in the Umbra. (p.313) Vampires are particularly hard to see, as they have "less of a spiritual presence than most." When peeking into the real world from the Umbra, it takes five successes to do things like read newsprint and make out expressions. They don't have any preternatural ability to perceive illusions or penetrate concealment effects from the Umbra; what they can see is the presence of Spirits and activity connected to the triat. They might not see the Obfuscated vampire, but they might see the Bane trailing him.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Your answer refers to seeing vampires in the Umbra, but it seems to be possible to see an obfuscated vampire looking from the Umbra into the Earth (God knows why). \$\endgroup\$ – Mu_ Mar 26 '14 at 13:47
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    \$\begingroup\$ I can't imagine a circumstance where vampires would be in the Umbra. (Barring some truly ridiculous crossover. :)) The situation I posit is a werewolf in the Umbra looking at a vampire in the physical world, and all the things that might be seen. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Mar 26 '14 at 13:53
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc When you use Psychic projection (Auxpex 5), don't you enter the Near Umbra? The book says that you can encounter spirits, mages and werewolves? \$\endgroup\$ – Flamma Mar 27 '14 at 10:19
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Flamma Technically, it's only the Periphery, I think — the place closest to the Real World. Also, Psychic Projection limits the number of disciplines you can use while in astral form, and Obfuscate is not among them, making it outside the scope of this question. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Mar 27 '14 at 11:14
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jasdac The mentioned WSHR says about Astral projection (translating back from spanish tranlation): "Pychic projection is somewhat problematic, since it does not assume a multilevel Umbra. For convenience, it is best to assume that the "astral plane" that the vampire accesses to are the Shadowlands, the Dark Umbra "penumbra"." Te formulation reinforces me in believing that: 1: this rules are suggestions. 2: They are ment to introduce vampires in an Werewolf game, not vice versa. In fact, some of these rules are incompatible (i.e. vampires accessing shadowlands should be equal to necromancy). \$\endgroup\$ – Mu_ Mar 27 '14 at 19:19

In Werewolf Storytellers Handbook Revised, there are crossover rules with many supernatural races. They state that a Werewolf peeking from the Umbra see a vampire in her true form, not as she wants to be seen. I fail to understand why is that, and I don't know if it refers only to the Mask of 1000 faces.

That rules comes from Werewolf: the Dark Ages (not to be confused with Dark Ages: Werewolf), and I think they have optional status.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Interesting. I'm guessing an editorial mismatch due to the span of time between those two books being published. Let's see if a new WW20 book covers it at all. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Mar 26 '14 at 13:54

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