2
\$\begingroup\$

Vampire is one of the worst classes from an optimization standpoint. Preselected, universally weak powers, few feats, no Con bonus to the Surge number. Inadequate as a Striker, no secondary role worth mentioning. This is generally accepted, at least I have never met anyone familiar with Striker baselines claim otherwise.

However, I have seen on this site and others that vampire was recommended as a Hybrid or Multiclass. And I just can not understand why.

Vampirism [Multiclass Vampire]

  • You get Child of the Night, except the actually useful parts, like darkvision or necrotic resistance. Rather negative.
  • You lose 4-6 Healing Surges. Horribly negative.
  • You gain regeneration while bloodied. Being bloodied is generally bad, unless you are a Dragonborn, why would you optimize for it? Slightly positive.
  • If you have more HS than your max, you can heal completely. Too bad you have to waste another feat to be able to gain a HS. Slightly positive.
  • Heal you bloodied value from an ally. Great.

In the end, you gave up your only multiclass slot, for something that is more negative than positive.

Hybrid Vampire

  • All of the above, except you only lose 2-3 surges.
  • A bonus to the damage rolls of your vampire powers. As stated above, everyone agrees they are not that good.

Question 1
What build could get better by hybriding with Vampire? Or is it the other way around, you take half of something else to try and make something Vampire-flavoured but still usable?

Question 2
What build could get better by multiclassing with Vamire instead of something else?

\$\endgroup\$
2
\$\begingroup\$

Question 1: None?

I don't think anyone has even bothered to make a Vampire handbook on the WOTC forums in all these years which is a black mark itself. The only scrap of optimization opinion on the Vampire comes up in the hybrid section of the optimization forums:

Vampire Summary: Lots of nice features, if only there wasn't that only having 2 surges issue and likely not wanting Vampire encounter powers. If you're going Vampire, you're doing this because your game typically has 4-6 encounters per day, not because you have 2-3.

  • Stats: Dex or Cha. You get one at-will from Vampire and it will be either Dex or Cha. Not too bad other than it might limit Daily choice.

  • Class Features: Solid, again, just two surges being the limiting problem and needing to get a Vampire feat to make up for it. Hurts to lose Vampire Reflexes though given only getting Cloth.

  • Implement/Weapon: Ki Focus is now one of the best options. A little too poachable by MC Assassin Feats, but you get Holy Symbol as well? Two off-slot implements and a shield bonus means lots of options for picking items for your hands.

  • At-Wills: At-wills are all decent.
  • Hybrid Feat benefits: Near worthless. You really want Darkvision that badly, be a Drow which is one of the best races for Vampires.

Of these only Ki-Focus implements is really good and as they state, there are better avenues to approach it. As you note in your question the Vampire is a pretty terrible striker and the costs that come with creating a hybrid character are in now way balanced out by what it has to offer. The only reason to make a Hybrid vampire is, as you say, you really wanted to play a better version of the vampire class.

Question 2:

As you note, Dragonborn can cheese being bloodied with their Dragonborn Fury feature and Dragonborn Frenzy feat. Being Bloodied is not inherently bad, there are also items that key off being bloodied that could also make use of this. There's really no reason to ever MC vampire compared to other options available to players.

\$\endgroup\$
0
\$\begingroup\$

One of my players play a vampire in another campaign at high paragon. Her character is so subpar that everyone agrees to let her rebuild her character.

As you said, vampire is no good from an optimization standpoint. In addition to limited power, shadow based resource is virtually non-existance, and its equipments (e.g. holy symbols) are designed for other classes.

Making her a hybrid paints a new sky. Skies, in fact:

  • Hybrid a martial to get martial feats.
  • Hybrid a striker to boost firepower.
  • Get proficiencies and class skills.
  • Get and use Martial/Divine/XXX Vampire without multiclassing.
  • Most important of all, hybrid to get much better powers.
    Twin Strikes. Low Slash. Bless Weapon. The crème de la crème.

Hybrid does not simply bring more options. Hybrid brings optimizable options.

  • Wield staff or blade as implement - with dragonshard on.
  • Wear Feral Armor to vampire slam in a close burst 1.
  • Fey Charge? Polearm Momentum? Stormwarden? Sure!
    Just make sure you make up your mind at level 1!

And you can control how much vampire you want. You can spare just enough powers to be a hybrid and stick with Vampire Noble paragon path, or you can go the other way and be a Pit Fighter. The freedom is yours.

\$\endgroup\$

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.