Specifically from the point of view of a rogue, it's kinda disheartening to realise that around paragon your best trick will be neutralised. What are some useful, viable ways to defeat things like blindsight, tremorsense, and darkvision?

  • \$\begingroup\$ Or you concerned with using stealth in battle or out of battle? \$\endgroup\$
    – Pat Ludwig
    Commented Oct 27, 2010 at 13:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ Both, really. In battle when you need to defeat the monsters, out of battle when you need to sneak by them. \$\endgroup\$
    – Sohum
    Commented Oct 27, 2010 at 19:37

2 Answers 2


It depends on how collaborative your DM is willing to be, but the Stealth skill and being Hidden aren't solely vision-related. Even in the basic skill description itself it points out that the extra sense of hearing might be enough to detect your presence. If you can come up with a plausible distraction or form of "concealment", your DM might let you make Stealth checks to hide from even advanced senses. A rain of marbles onto the stone floor might be just what you need to get the edge on the Galeb Duhr, for example. Alternatively, you could combine skills - perhaps it can detect your presence on the floor, but a combination of Athletics or Acrobatics and Stealth and it'd never see you coming in for an attack from the ceiling. Furthermore, you can take advantage of the simple fact that both tremorsense and blindsight are both typically fairly limited in range, and that blind creatures automatically fail perception checks against things beyond the range of their special senses. A crossbow can be a rogue's best friend.

Darkvision is perhaps simpler, as it removes only the ability to hide in shadows or dim light. You can still use hard cover and physical obstructions for Stealth. Similarly, effects and items that create clouds of smoke will still foil darkvision - the lowly Smokestick is incredibly overpriced but gives you something to remain hidden in when the battlefield is otherwise empty. Depending on the creature and the source of their darkvision, the DM might also let you use sudden bright lights as a source of distraction for your initial Stealth check. Don't overplay it, but suddenly tossing a lit Sunrod at the Drow and running away might at least net you an extra round of non-enslavement.

  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Hooray for not being constrained to whatever rules they decided to put in the book! \$\endgroup\$
    – mxyzplk
    Commented Oct 27, 2010 at 17:55

There is some discussion here.

There are a number of mechanics. The simplest (but least useful) is the thief of Legend ED, which as its level 30 power grants:

You gain a passive Stealth score equal to 10 + your Stealth modifier. Any creature that has a passive Perception lower than your passive Stealth score, or that has an active Perception check result that does not equal or surpass your passive Stealth score, cannot see you unless you choose to let that creature see you.

On a more limited scope, however, the abilities have to be defeated individually.


A creature that has blindsight can clearly see creatures or objects within a specified range and within line of effect, even if they are invisible or obscured. The creature otherwise relies on its normal vision.

Here, cover is essential. Therefore, phasing is the way to defeat blindsight, as it allows you to move through cover. There are quite a few ways to gain phasing, depending on level, but the paragon path: Avenging Haunt is one of the best.

Tremorsense requires a contiguous surface. Flight is required there. Avenging haunt, again, is an all-in-one solution.

Darkvision defeat requires cover, therefore phasing. This, in many ways, is the worst of them.

The other way to defeat all of these is through bluff, but that's not the question you asked and has its own difficulties.


The reflexive psychic shroud provides a daily:

"Effect: Until the end of your next turn, you are hidden and cannot be seen by blindsight or tremorsense."

Greyflower Perfume is a somewhat expensive way to defeat blindsight though not common sense:

Power (Consumable): Minor Action. You are invisible to creatures that see using blindsight until the start of your next turn.

From a flavourtext perspective, you may be able to suggest that the Battlemind's Feather Step (Utility 2, At-will) provides a chance for a stealth check from tremorsense due to its flavour:

With a focused thought, you lift your body slightly off the ground on a current of psionic energy, allowing you to move over water or broken ground with ease.

But you're probably better off flying, as there are many easy ways to get that.

At epic, Vaporform armor provides a slightly painful way of inflitration:

Power (Daily): Move Action. You become insubstantial and can fit through even the smallest spaces without squeezing. You also gain fly 6 (hover) and can only take move actions until you return to your natural form, which you can do as a free action. While in vaporous form, you take 5 damage at the start of each turn.

Which, when it or the vampiric heritage Mist Form are combined with the epic assassin Walker Through Shadows:

Benefit: While you are insubstantial, you also gain phasing.

Allow fairly easy circumvention of out-of-combat blindsight, though at epic, there are almost certainly wards against phasing, which evens the conflict.


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