# Are initiation and submersion intended to have such a major Karma disparity?

The cost to initiate as a Magic user is 10 + (Grade × 3), so for the first five Grades, the costs are: 13, 16, 19, 22, and 25; totaling 95 Karma. Initiation provides a single benefit from a small list and increases your maximum Magic rating by 1.

The cost to submerge as a Resonance user is 10 × (Grade × 3), so for the first five Grades, the costs are: 30, 60, 90, 120, and 150; totaling 450 Karma. Submersion provides a single benefit from a small list and increases your maximum Resonance rating by 1.

I want this to be a typo so unbelievably badly, but I would not be surprised if it is exactly as intended. However, I have no clue how (or if) this was handled in previous iterations of Shadowrun. The only reason I even ask if others might also think it's just a typo, not the intended usage, is the awkward formula that looks exactly like the Initiation formula.

I believe, if submersion's cost was intended to be calculated as written, it would have been written as (Grade × 30), not the awkward 10 × (Grade × 3) format. It very obviously and deliberately mirrors the format of initiation's 10 + (Grade × 3), making me believe they should be one and the same. The initiation cost appears twice in the book (and is the same, written the same way both times) while the submersion cost appears only the once (and thus has no way to double-check it against a different reference for typos).

Is it a typo, or is as-intended? Obviously, RAW will be very little use here until there's a new errata document or the Matrix book, so any and all explanations are useful, not just RAW citations.

• I'm sure this question doesn't go here, but I want to put it where the right people will see it: Am I correct that the expected form on this site is that I'm not supposed to comment a 'thank you' to the people who answered? Just mark up the helpful answers, accept the "most helpful" or "most correct", and they'll know? Obviously I'm kind of working around that this time, by asking this question here instead of on the meta site, but if that's what I'm supposed to do, that's what I'll do in the future. – gatherer818 Jul 11 '14 at 19:34
• The primary feedback methods are upvoting, and accepting the best answer, yes. If you want, it is not unusual to post "thanks" as a comment to an answer, but it isn't necessary. The comment may eventually get cleaned up, depending on who sees it. DEFINITELY DO NOT post a new answer saying thanks, though. – AceCalhoon Jul 11 '14 at 21:31

Although this is mostly supposition based on evidence in the book, as a whole, technomancers are exactly like mages in every mechanical way except this one departure.

The amounts listed in the chart based on your statement would make it basically impossible for a technomancer to ever get to be a substantial threat, as most of the experience of their entire career will be waiting to submerse, and they would lag FAR too far behind their contemporaries. With the fact that they get a shred less (in options mostly) for submersion, it stands to reason this is a typo.

My assumption based on how technomancers are treated as a whole compared to mages is that you are right and this is a typo, especially with the costs of initiation already being somewhat high.

I just treat it like it's the same cost for both initiation and submersion, myself, based on this evidence.

• Also, the fact the cost was also 10 + (Grade x 3) from SR4A (p.243), it stands to reason it was also a typo. Strange how they didn't address it in the errata. – Liack Sep 15 '14 at 14:43

The cost to submerge is the same to initiate : 10 + (Grade × 3). The French version of Shadowrun 5 (recently get out) have corrected this :

Chaque grade a un coût égal à 10 + (grade × 3) points de Karma.