The demon form modification Huge Size (DtD Core Rulebook):

Appearance: When the demon takes on his demonic form, he grows out of his skin into a huge monster.

And the demon form technology Collapsible (Flowers of Hell: the Demon Players Guide, on p. 125) :

Appearance: Parts of the demon’s body seem to flicker in and out of existence rapidly. The overall effect is like a TV tuned to static or like a strange screensaver that progressively distorts or erases her body, only to have each area return to normal as the phenomenon moves to another part.

Emphasis mine.

Separately you can see how these forms would arouse suspicion, add drama and counter balance the positives. Combined however, they seem to cancel the negatives (collapsible only makes you flicker briefly) and the positives stack.

Whilst I doubt any sane storyteller would allow the +3 to hide etc. if you grew then shrank to size 5, you do get to keep the huge size health bonus:

These changes in Size do not affect the demon’s Health or Attributes.


Taking this form ability imparts 4 extra Size from creature type to the demon when he changes his form.

It feels like combining these two is too good, and that I'm missing something. Essential is a compromise roll at +4 (or more) to gain 4 health, for any where between 10 and 15 health total! In addition as far as I can tell, manifesting partial demon aspects can be done indefinitely.

So what am I missing out, is this OK?


1 Answer 1


I just reread the whole partial and full transformation part. There is one reference there that implies a lot and is easily overlooked:

Partially transforming into demonic form is still a compromise for the demon, yet not as severe as a full transformation.

Then after that the difference in the roll is explained. If we now take a look at the full transformation we see one thing:

The longer the demon stays in her demonic form, the more attention she draws to herself. Each scene the demon remains in demonic form, the player must make an additional compromise roll with an extra cummulative -1......

If we take the first quote into consideration then that means that partial transformation should have the same limitation there. You start with a better roll when attaining partial transformation but it degrades the same over time as it does for full transformation. Thus for each additional scene you are in partial transform you need to roll cover again with a cummulative -1 modifier each.

If you think about it it makes sense that way, as you are clearly not mortal with flickering in and out and over time the god machine sees it as well if you take on that ability for too long.

In total if you attain partial transformation with both these abilities active you have a penalty of 1 for "just" being harder to see and smaller on a roll that can reduce your cover rating by 1. I would say that that penalty is already enough to offset the advantage the two abilities have combined. (also dont forget you need an instatnt action to change your size with collapsible).

All in all I think the -1 penalty is harsh enough especially coupled with the roll once per scene even for partial transformation (even if the dice pool is higher there it will degrade over time enough for you to fail almost asuredly if you take on partial transformation for too long)

And in full demonic form: You have a technology that "just" allows you to shrink. I think compared with teh other technologies there isn't really a problem there. But one thing needs to be kept in mind: When you assume full form you have your BIG size (same for partial form) first. THEN you need to spend an instand action to shrink. Thus transforming in a very narrow ventilation shaft is quite.......hurtful.


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