On Archives of Nethys the First Worlder Summoner summon replacement ability is defined as:

Summon Nature’s Ally (Sp): Starting at 1st level, a first worlder can cast summon nature’s ally a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. At levels where a summoner would gain a more powerful summon monster spell as a spell-like ability, he instead gains the equivalent summon nature’s ally spell (at 19th level, he can use summon nature’s ally IX or gate). When a first worlder gains a summon nature’s ally spell as a spell-like ability, he adds it to his class spell list (he must still select it as a spell known if he wants to cast it as an actual spell). This ability otherwise replaces the summon monster ability of a normal summoner.

Other abilities like this (for example in the same archetype see the Fey Summons ability) it says things like the following:

This otherwise works like and replaces the X ability of a normal Y.

I am not that familiar with Pathfinder, so I don't know whether that's standard wording that means something or just an individual case.

Now, my question is, since the Summon Nature's Ally doesn't specify (as in the ability that it replaces) that you can't have the Eidolon ability running at the same time.

Is this why the First Worlder Summoner is so otherwise-crappy? Can you cast Summon Nature's Ally from your spell-like ability while your Eidolon is active?

Edit: Oh, I should have mentioned that I'm specifically interested in this for Pathfinder Society, though I'd like a general answer as well.


2 Answers 2



The ability works exactly as written, so the limitations and other rule changes (increased duration) do not apply to the First Worlder.


Pupsocket describes it well in this post on the paizo messageboards:

The PF devs don't write to rules lawyer standard. I think they ought to hire somebody who did, but it's an indisputable fact that they don't.

Given that the missing paragraph is either a small oversight or a huge change implied but not explicitly stated, oversight is the safe assumption.

Especially given the semantically meaningless "otherwise" in "this ability otherwise replaces".

I don't think assuming large rules-changes based on two missing words in a standard phrase makes any kind of sense.

For home games, you can use whatever rule you and your GM agree upon.

Concerning PFS

Go with the highly likely RAI interpretation. If you want to stick with RAW, you will have to convince every single GM you will ever play that character under. Some GMs might go: It's RAW, it's game. I personally would dismiss RAW as unlikely intended and overrule it in PFS play, with no way to convince me otherwise. So basically, your character's abilities would strongly depend on your GM.

But maybe more importantly: Think of the social effect of trying to convince a GM you maybe met for the first time on a Convention of a rules-lawyer reading of a specific, rather obscure(!) Archetype for one of the most powerful classes in the game. Rules-Lawyering is not a well-respected thing to do.

  • \$\begingroup\$ No, fair enough. Honestly I was hoping there was something redeeming about that particular ludicrously useless archetype because it fits my character concept's fluff perfectly. But I'll probably just stick with regular summoner since it seems like way too much hassle for not much gain \$\endgroup\$
    – Jeff
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 9:02
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jeff To point out the hassle is exactly the point of the last part of the answer :) \$\endgroup\$
    – MrLemon
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 9:06

By rules as written, Yes.

These two lines are missing:

Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon. As a result, he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned.

A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time.

This leads me to believe that not only can you have your Eidolon out, but you can also have a Nature's Ally and a Summon Monster out, all three, at the same time.

Rules as intended are another story, if you hope to use this in Pathfinder Society, you're going to have to talk to the GM of the organized play group you're joining.

However, there are a few things to note:

  • Spell-like abilities are always standard unless otherwise noted, so this ability is still a standard action.
  • The Summon Nature's Ally will only last a number of rounds equal to your level, as opposed to minutes.
  • You will not qualify for the Extra Summons feat.

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