I have a friend who is playing a Trox. In the listed description we have the bonuses for being that race.

All trox have the following racial traits. + 6 Strength, –2 Intelligence, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma: Trox are very strong, but they can be dim, unreceptive, and inhospitable.

Large: Trox are Large and take a –1 size penalty to AC, take a –4 size penalty on Stealth checks, and gain a +1 size bonus on combat maneuver checks and to combat maneuver defense.

I have stated that PC races have all statistics that define their ability scores and bonuses in the section showing how to create said PC with race.

He is arguing that, in addition to these listed bonuses, he also gains an additional a +2 size bonus to Strength, a –2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. He is has shown sources showing that this is a how a creature changes its statistics through monster bonuses by size tables and the enlarge person spell.

Friend: As the Trox does not have a -2 to dexterity as shown to happen to any creature of larger size, the Trox therefore must not yet have applied any bonuses for being large.

I'm under the impression that at creation a PC has all listed statistic to make the character. I'm trying to put this under the bridge so I could use some help.

Are the size modifiers already included in the Trox's attribute modifiers, or do they also get applied on top of those?


1 Answer 1


The quoted rule about -2 dexterity is for a creature that changes sizes. A creature that is naturally a given size has all its racial ability modifiers already calculated into its race description.

Note: the Trox's RP-built monstrous race and the Bestiary character race option are consistent with each other; the one showing the RP expenditures has the last two points of Strength on a separate line.

  • \$\begingroup\$ I edited my comment's references into your answer, since my comment will not last as long as this probably \$\endgroup\$ Commented Aug 25, 2014 at 13:41
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yup, you're right. Thanks for the quick response. This'll clear everything up. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Aug 25, 2014 at 14:53
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @ZacharyAlexanderChappelle If gatherer818 has answered your question, it is considered courteous to both him and future readers to mark his answer as Accepted; gatherer gets reputation for it, and future readers can immediately see that the question has been answered and his is the answer to read to get that answer. As a bonus, you'll get +2 rep for selecting an accepted answer. \$\endgroup\$
    – KRyan
    Commented Aug 25, 2014 at 18:29
  • 5
    \$\begingroup\$ Note that the Trox does take a -1 penalty to attack rolls due to being a large creature. It's part of the attack roll formula: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier \$\endgroup\$
    – AceCalhoon
    Commented Aug 25, 2014 at 21:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ @AceCalhoon: Expanding on this, being Large grants +1 to CMD and CMB, -1 to hit and AC, -2 to Fly, and -4 to stealth, in addition to the increased reach. This is on top of ability score adjustments, which were already calculated in this case. See the Size Bonuses and Penalties table. \$\endgroup\$
    – KryptofTen
    Commented Oct 14, 2022 at 5:30

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