I am currently doing a comparison between the monk and brawler to determine which is more optimal for a current build I am working towards. I have a question regarding the Brawlers Martial Training (Ex) granted at level 1, and more specifically how the two classes work under the whole "Parent Class" system.

Martial Training (Ex) At 1st level, a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist and a monk's robe). This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, namely Stunning Fist.

The qualifying for feats part, I assume this is strictly for feats that have "Fighter level" prerequisites, I am more or less verifying that this does not apply towards the bonus feats that each class has, for example: 2fighter, 2monk, 2brawler would be 1 - start, 2 - fighter, 2 - monk, 1 - brawler, 2 - levels(3,5) = 8 feats.

Second question which is very similar, if I were to take 2 levels of Monk, and 2 levels of Brawler, would my Damage be a d8? (4th level monk is a d8, and a 4th level brawler is a d8).

Third is the AC Bonus:

Brawler: At 4th level, when a brawler wears light or no armor, she gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC and CMD. This bonus increases by 1 at 9th, 13th, and 18th levels.

These bonuses to AC apply against touch attacks. She loses these bonuses while immobilized or helpless, wearing medium or heavy armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load.

Monk: When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four monk levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Because the monks bonus is untyped, I assume that they stack, but would both increase if the Brawler levels also count as monk? Example: If I had 4 levels of monk (+1 ac) and 9 levels of Brawler (+2 from Brawler, +2 more for monk because 13th level?)

Thank you in advance.


2 Answers 2


To the first part of your question, you don't gain the bonus feat progression.

This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, namely Stunning Fist.

As a 5th level Brawler, you'd add your Brawler level (5) to your effective monk level (0) and effective fighter level (0) for the purposes of feat prerequisites and other interactions.

For the second part,

While a character can multiclass with [a hybrid class's] parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don't stack unless specified.

I'm not entirely certain how this interacts with damage dice, but a ruling in line with intent is that you use the larger of the two damage dice. A fair ruling could allow the progressions to stack anyway.

AC bonus is questionable, due to the abilities sharing the same name. I personally would rule that they do stack, due to different typing.

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ I realized after I typed it, but if I am not mistake dodge bonus's stack either way. Thank you for leaving an answer! \$\endgroup\$
    – DanceSC
    Commented Sep 16, 2014 at 21:55

The qualifying for feats part:

Core rules each character can tart out with a Favored Class and you have to use a level up for each class you add. So you get Level 1 in your second class with a level up, if you are still level 1 in your favored class you are now character level 2. The same as you add any additional classes. Then with each level up you have to select which class you level. Yes you do get all your starting feats. The majority of the answers to the questions are on page 30,31 of the Core Rulebook.

What I originally wrote was in fact a carry over from D&D 3.5, which is still a good source to work from when Pathfinder rules do not yet cover something that has been covered in D&D. If you are actually starting a Character out with multiple classes you are playing by alternate rules or House rules, but to comply with the Core Rules you would have to wait until you had the appropriate XP for the Next Character Level before advancing a class.

Second question:

Core Rules Multiclass BAB stacks, Hit Dice Stack, class abilities unless specified do not. You will start with HD + CON for each class at level 1 stacked. You will start with BAB stacked, and when BAB reaches 6 you will get a second attack of 1, this will progress as you add a level to each class. The monk damage of d8 at level 4 is a class benefit and only if there is text that states these stack can they stack(Such as a Psionic Fist and a Monk). Your DM can rule otherwise based on their interpretation of the classes. Class benefits are based on Class level as class based training.

Third is the AC Bonus:

AC Bonuses are more particular. For explanatory purposes Mage Armor from one caster and Greater Mage armor from another do not stack, you do however get eth higher of the two. The brawlers dodge AC bonus based on the Brawlers Class level stacks with the Monks Wisdom AC bonus bases on the Monk Class level(not on the character level). These are based on Class Training. The Monks Wisdom AC bonus only applies though if you are not wearing Armor (Core Rule Book). Now for a Dodge from one Class to stack with another Class dodge bonus to AC would again have to be a DM call, considering the Level 4 Dodge bonus for one class is probably the same training as the level 4 Dodge bonus for the other. You learn to do a "sidestep" from two different trainers, it is still the same sidestep.

Going to add with reference to Class Feats stacking depends on the feat. Some classes specify "if you already have this feat from another class upgrade to feat or select something else from category specified"; in these cases there are open options. If you look at the feats Evasion and Improved Evasion, these have no step up from Improved Evasion; these do not have a descriptor in the core class to opt for something else. Based strictly on Core rules no stack, no options, you already got it you are good. Again your DM can still opt to let you do something different. Unlike evasion Dodge feats can stack, each feat after the Improved Dodge grants you protection up to a higher level against surprise attacks.

Hope this is helpful.

  • \$\begingroup\$ I have no idea what you're referring to with 1 Race Class, 1 Base Class and 1 Prestige Class for free Are you referring to the 3.x multiclassing rules (which penalized you for taking too many classes) or the 5e rules (which aren't applicable to a pathfinder question)? \$\endgroup\$
    – Bobson
    Commented Sep 15, 2014 at 18:27
  • \$\begingroup\$ Pathfinder doesn't have "Race Class", or even Level Adjust as rules, and there's no limit on the number of classes (core, base, alternate, OR prestige) that you can take, or any penalties for doing so. \$\endgroup\$
    – Bobson
    Commented Sep 15, 2014 at 18:55
  • \$\begingroup\$ Referring to Pathfinder Core rulebook. It is not a penalty as much as a Character level balancing. I assume you know what a race class or beast class is, what a base class is and what a Prestige class is. Race/beast Classes refers to the benefits that can be acquired for certain races as they level, but a fighter is a base class, a Monk is a base class and because of the feat boons and other bonuses moves the character class up. It is all Pathfinder references. You cannot start out with 4 base /core classes as a level 1 Character if you go by the core rule book. \$\endgroup\$
    – Honorlord
    Commented Sep 15, 2014 at 19:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ I will double check the books when I get home. It may only be the 1 level for the added core class. Character Level is based on total levels in Pathfinder, so at the very least a triple class is Character Level 3 coming out of the gate. \$\endgroup\$
    – Honorlord
    Commented Sep 15, 2014 at 19:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ That much we can agree on. \$\endgroup\$
    – Bobson
    Commented Sep 15, 2014 at 19:24

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .