So I am testing out the Arcane Trickster prestige class, because it looks like fun.

However, my issue is that the spell I want to have the most, Greater Create Demiplane, would be nearly impossible (Or just take forever) to acquire due to the fact that I will be losing three levels in whatever spellcasting class I take (Due to the Rogue requirements)

Do you guys know of any way I could utilize spells higher than the level I'm allowed to use? I don't want to have to keep buying scrolls for the spells I want, and I have some spare feats and traits I can look into for these.

Any ideas?


3 Answers 3


Get or create a costume "Staff of the Planes"

I couldn't find such an item in the rules, but the rules for staves creation allow creating new types of staves. It will be extremely expensive, but you'll get an item which will allow you to use Greater Create Demiplane up to 10 times before needing to find a more powerful caster to recharge it for you (until you reach a level allowing you to cast 9th level spells, of course - then you could recharge it yourself).

Also, keep in mind that most of the unique benefits of Greater Create Demiplane over it's "standard" and "lesser" are something you may use sparingly - you can create a functioning demiplane using the "standard" and "lesser" versions, and use the "greater" variant only for adding a permanent portal or change the way time work there etc. (which, since the "greater" variant affects more space of a plane, you will need less castings to cover your entire demiplane)

If you really have enough money, I'd get 2 different staves:

  • A "Staff of the Plains" which I'd need help recharging but grants access to Greater Create Demiplane.
  • A "Minor Staff of the Plains" which doesn't have the Greater Create Demiplane power, but which I'd be able to charge on my own - this one will be used for most of the plane creation / modifications I'd need.

Thematically, I think the "Staff of the Plains" should have something along the following powers:

  • Minor Create Demiplane (1 charge)
  • Create Demiplane (2 charges, or 1 charge if you pay extra during creation)
  • Greater Create Demiplane (3 charges, or 1 charge if you pay extra during creation)

Maybe also some helpful powers for a demiplane creator / keeper:

  • Plane Shift (maybe limited to travel between a created demiplane and the Material, Astral and Ethereal planes)
  • Permanency (limited to effects on the created demiplane)
  • Some other niceties such as Tiny Hut or Magnificent Mansion etc.

If you want me to add the costs for such staves, or more information on how to create / charge them, please indicate that in the comments...

At any rate, this is something you'll need to work out the details with your DM - he may require you to research the creation of such an item and create it yourself, rather than simply allow you to commission such an item from a really powerful wizard...

  • \$\begingroup\$ I find this answer kinda of misleading. sure he gets access to the spell sooner than normal, but he is still going to have to pay $$$ for the item and pay $$$ to a level 17 wizard (if he can find one) to recharge it. It does not really avoid the 'I do not want keep buying scroll' problem. \$\endgroup\$
    – Colin D
    Sep 18, 2014 at 17:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ColinD - not sure I'd call this "misleading" as I am pointing out the incredible cost of the staff(s!) in several places, but you are right, this isn't cheap :). I think the main merit of this answer is in pointing out that you actually don't need the "greater" version for most uses. Other than that, a staff is more like an investment - gives you early access to the spells, but later you can recharge it on your own and keep using it. This differs from scrolls which, while less expensive, are basically an expense - you don't end up with something useful and reusable. \$\endgroup\$
    – G0BLiN
    Sep 20, 2014 at 20:15

As you mentioned in the comments (before purge), rogue 3/wizard 7/arcane trickster 10 gets you access to the level 9 wizard spells (greater create demiplane) at level 20.

You could get this one level sooner (19) by doing it as rogue 1/wizard 8/assassin 1/arcane trickster 10. This works because of the way the assassin gets the sneak attack ability. The assassin class does not calculate sneak attack dice by adding its level to the rogue levels like other classes (vivisectionist alchemist for example).

  • \$\begingroup\$ Additionally, you can "increase" your caster level if your GM is willing to let you take the "magical knack" magical trait in the traits system, and by being an Int/Dex rogue/wiz AT, you can increase both your skillpoints and spells per day. - I played this style of AT in my previous campaign. you basically end up as "macguyver with spells". I quote, of course, from the "Highly Regarded Expert's Guide to the Arcane Trickster" located here: docs.google.com/document/d/… \$\endgroup\$
    – mcjomar
    Sep 17, 2014 at 7:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ @mcjomar magical knack can be useful to bump saves/duration but I does not extend much beyond that. rpg.stackexchange.com/a/34590/3358 \$\endgroup\$
    – Colin D
    Sep 17, 2014 at 12:29
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @ColinD, how would magical knack affect save DC? Magical knack can also boost spell damage. \$\endgroup\$
    – Jon Claus
    Sep 18, 2014 at 20:53
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ColinD Jon Claus has it right - Caster Level is important for spell effects that rely on Caster Level. This includes spell damage, amount of rays fired from Scorching Ray (an AT primary spell selection) and a number of other spells besides - where the rules allow. If you pick your three rogue levels first, and THEN, take wizard levels, your caster level, even with magical knack, will not be above character level. You'll still be a level below a pure wizard in terms of caster level, but it allows an AT to "catch up" in terms of spell power. Combine with sniper goggles in PF and it's painful. \$\endgroup\$
    – mcjomar
    Sep 19, 2014 at 7:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ @mcjomar your right, DC does not seem to be effected. However, the point I was trying to make was that, Magical Knack is not going to give you access to new spell levels, just make the spells you have better. \$\endgroup\$
    – Colin D
    Sep 19, 2014 at 12:19

Depending on what you plan on using the spell for, and how often you wish to cast it, perhaps a scroll or two of the spell will suit your needs? Scrolls of a higher level spell than you can cast require a caster level check against a DC of the caster level of the scroll plus one. So, for a 9th level spell, the DC will generally be 18 (17th Caster level), with you only adding your caster level.

Apart from this, I'm not aware of any way to acquire higher spell levels faster. Some classes get access to some spells earlier than others, but I don't see that with this particualr spell.

Note that the Lesser and normal version of Create Demiplane ARE available to Summoners at a lower spell level and lower caster level, but Greater is not available to them.


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