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When a creature is invisible but not hidden, one could argue that the players still know it's general location.

If a creature becomes invisible and not hidden does it remain on the battle-mat?

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An invisible creature is not hidden. All creatures are fully aware of which square/location it is in, therefore it remains on the battle mat.

This is one of the core Rules of Hidden Club.

  1. The First Premise: Everyone knows where everyone else is, at all times, period.
  2. The Second Premise: There is one and only one exception to The First Premise, and that exception is Hidden.

The relevant rules are contained in the "Invisible creatures and stealth" definition.

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    \$\begingroup\$ I've read the Rules of Hidden Club, but I'm curious from what rules they get this logic from. \$\endgroup\$
    – Mark Rogers
    Nov 29, 2010 at 18:49
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    \$\begingroup\$ It seems to come from the idea that no matter what, everything causes some type of affect on whatever is around it, and characters (and monsters) are to a degree sensitive to this. So, we get the idea that even though you might be invisible you are not unnoticeable. It also makes the game simpler. \$\endgroup\$
    – Acedrummer_CLB
    Nov 29, 2010 at 21:02
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    \$\begingroup\$ Emphasis on It also makes the game simpler. \$\endgroup\$
    – C. Ross
    Nov 29, 2010 at 21:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Mark By default the game uses minis on a playmat. The onus is on the person who wants to remove them from the board to prove why they should be allowed to IMHO. I believe the Rules Compendium states this more directly, but I am away from my copy ATM \$\endgroup\$
    – Pat Ludwig
    Nov 29, 2010 at 22:11
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Yep, remains on the map. Here are the 4e Official rules on Invisible.

  • Can’t be seen by normal forms of vision.
  • Has combat advantage against any enemy that can’t see it.
  • Doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks from enemies that can’t see it.
  • Has Total Concealment (-5 Penalty to Attack Rolls): when can’t be seen.

Invisible Creatures and Stealth: If an invisible creature is HIDDEN from you, you can neither hear nor see it, and you have to guess what space it occupies. If an invisible creature is not hidden from you, you can hear it or sense some other sign of its presence and therefore know what space it occupies, although you still can’t see it.

Make a Perception Check: On your turn, you can make a Perception check as a minor action to try to determine the location of an invisible creature that is HIDDEN from you.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ I know of a player whose character always carries a small bag of flour for this very situation. \$\endgroup\$
    – Roxysteve
    Nov 29, 2010 at 21:01
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    \$\begingroup\$ Flour works, so does powdered talc, or other substances that remain in the air for a short time. However, I as the DM have ruled that invisibility applies to things that touch or remain on the person/creature. Even if they do so after becoming invisible. So it doesn't stick and show, but if it is in the air around the invisible creature there is only a -2 penalty to hit, no CA granted and provokes OA. This keeps the characters from ignoring invisibility completely and they find they can use it too. \$\endgroup\$
    – Acedrummer_CLB
    Nov 29, 2010 at 21:10

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