I was cruising through high level spells and noticed the Create Demi-plane serie. All of them are nice but pretty intensive on the maintenance part, Day/lvl is nice but still... you don't always have a day or two to waste on recasting the spell(s) while adventuring.

The permanency alternative is horrendously expansive and we all know that it can be dispelled easily by any spellcaster you antagonized enough (The list is likely to be pretty damn long by the time you get to this level of power). Losing thousands of GP on a single spell is pretty painfull.

Then I remembered reading about Planar Traits...

Timeless for example (Emphasize mine):

Timeless: On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait affects certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane. The danger of a timeless plane is that once an individual leaves such a plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as hunger and aging occur retroactively. If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any spell cast with a noninstantaneous duration is permanent until dispelled.

It made *Tilt* in my head.

What if I shift to the Astral plane which happen to be Timeless then cast create Demiplan ? Do I have a cheap permanency-ed Demi-plan?

  • \$\begingroup\$ From memory, the Astral Plane isn't timeless with respect to magic. Admittedly, however, it's an obscure point and my memory isn't perfect, so maybe I'm wrong about that. More to the point, does the spell effect reside within the Astral, the new demiplane, or both? \$\endgroup\$
    – GMJoe
    Commented Sep 23, 2014 at 7:12

2 Answers 2


From the Pathfinder SRD entry on the Astral Plane:

Timeless: Age, hunger, thirst, afflictions (such as diseases, curses, and poisons), and natural healing don't function in the Astral Plane, though they resume functioning when the traveler leaves the Astral Plane.

The Astral Plane is not Timeless in regards to magic, so you couldn't cheap (cheat?) permanence a Demiplane from there.

However Create Demiplane, Lesser states that:

You must be on the Astral or Ethereal Plane or on a plane that has access to one of those planes (such as the Material Plane) to cast this spell.

If you can find another plane that does feature Timeless magic and has access to the Astral or Ethereal planes (and you could convince your GM that this would work), you would be able to cast one of the forms of Create Demiplane there and thus have your own permanent Demiplane, although as the Timeless feature states it will still be susceptible to dispelling.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you for spotting my mistake: The Astral Plane is not Timeless in regards to magic. \$\endgroup\$
    – Harmelyo
    Commented Sep 23, 2014 at 9:19
  • \$\begingroup\$ I don't agree with the second part of this answer, actually. See my own answer, if you do find a different plane with timeless magic with a link to the astral plane, you will still be creating a new (demi)plane that exists OUTSIDE of the timeless plane. \$\endgroup\$
    – Theik
    Commented Sep 23, 2014 at 11:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Theik By that logic it would be completely impossible to create a permanent Demiplane - how can you utilize a Timeless plane benefit that doesn't exist yet at the time you cast the spell? (I'm not against the idea of it being impossible, thus I said the bit about convincing the GM). \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 23, 2014 at 11:14
  • \$\begingroup\$ @winterblood You can make this spell permanent with the permanency spell, at a cost of 22,500 gp. If you have cast create greater demiplane multiple times to enlarge the demiplane, each casting's area requires its own permanency spell. Also, greater demiplane allows you to give an existing demiplane you made the timeless property, which may also work as a cheap permanency alternative, no idea how this interacts with itself. (Do you have to recast timeless to keep it from falling back into non-timeless, and thus disappearing entirely? No clue.) \$\endgroup\$
    – Theik
    Commented Sep 23, 2014 at 11:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Theik sorry, I meant it would be impossible to create a permanent Demiplane by using the Timeless attribute. I know that a permanency spell is a viable alternative. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Sep 23, 2014 at 11:41

I don't think so, based on what it says right here:

The demiplane is another plane of existence, and therefore is outside the range of any spell or ability that cannot affect or reach other planes.


An ejected creature goes to the closest plane to your demiplane (usually the Astral Plane or the Ethereal Plane,

So your new demiplane is not actually on the astral plane if you cast it from within the astral plane and would not be affected by any of the timeless properties of the domain you were in when you cast it.

However, the Greater Demiplane creation spell does have an option for making it timeless, which I suppose would also automatically make it permanent, although that may or may not be considered a copout by your DM, or could have other, unwanted effects such as your bountiful plane no longer being bountiful because your plants stop growing.


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