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I am asking a very specific question and it is a follow-up to one of my earlier ones. (See Here.). Inside the link, is described a very specific situation in which a Warlock takes a paragon path which allows him to open a portal and then throw enemies through it.

In a similar situation as found in the previous question, let us say that the Warlock in question obtains the feat "Flitting Shadows."

Flitting Shadows

Benefit: Whenever you hit an enemy under your Warlock’s Curse with an encounter or daily warlock power, you can reduce the Warlock’s Curse damage you deal to teleport the target. You can teleport the target 3 squares for each die of Warlock’s Curse damage you give up.

With this new feat in hand, like in the example from the previous post, the Warlock uses Lash of the Long Night to throw his enemy into hindering terrain. The encounter power pushes the enemy back through the portal, so he takes his saving throw and he succeeds. Would that Warlock now have the option of using Flitting Shadows to attempt to push him through the portal again in lieu of doing damage?

If the damage is resolved first, assuming that the Warlock opens his portal right behind the target, the enemy would be pushed back roughly 11-12 squares if that Warlock chooses to use Flitting Shadows to its fullest extent. If that enemy succeeds in a savings throw, does he simply remain at the edge of the portal as if nothing had happened?

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The power you're throwing out there should resolved in the following order:

  • Attack roll
  • Damage roll
  • Slowing
  • Pushing

You perform a power's actions in the order in which they appear on the power. Since the damage happens before the pushing, then the damage roll has already happened and you cannot teleport your opponent after pushing them. However, as you describe, you can teleport them, and then slow and push them if you need to.

The question then becomes does your new teleport require a save? The answer to this is no. If you teleport them to the square of the quick portal, then they have to save against the second teleport. However, you can't force them to save again this turn. They remain in the square of the portal, and thus can't be pushed into it again (the teleport rules don't indicate that any movement is granted).

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  • \$\begingroup\$ So if you can't force someone to save twice with the same ability, if the enemy were to succeed in his save, would the player still have the option to use the push from the ability to send the enemy flying to another part of the room? Let us say there is a cliff 5 squares away from the portal. Could the character be forced to save again if the threat is from a different source? \$\endgroup\$ – Masaka Oct 9 '14 at 11:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Masaka it's not actually that you can't force a save twice with the same ability, it's that the enemy would be standing on the portal square. So yes, the push is still very much in force, it's just you can't force the guy to save against the portal again since he's standing on it and that means you can't push him into it again. \$\endgroup\$ – wax eagle Oct 9 '14 at 12:05
  • \$\begingroup\$ Also, is there any chance you can source the PHB for where it says that this order of operation is correct? \$\endgroup\$ – Masaka Oct 10 '14 at 2:39
  • \$\begingroup\$ I read this about teleportation in the compendium... Destination Space: The destination of the teleportation must be an unoccupied space that is at least the same size as the target. For instance, ... If arriving in the destination space would cause the target to fall or if that space is hindering terrain, the target can immediately make a saving throw. On a save, the teleportation is negated. Otherwise, the target arrives in the destination space. Since the teleportation is negated, would the target remain where they started? Would the push affect be able to push them through twice? \$\endgroup\$ – Masaka Oct 10 '14 at 2:52
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Masaka re: PHB citation, no, Pg 61 of the rules compendium though might help. We're splitting hairs here since we're parsing order of ops from something that is typically handled simultaneously. best we can do is try to find a bit of order. \$\endgroup\$ – wax eagle Oct 10 '14 at 3:12

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