Or perhaps worded otherwise, can one apply metamagic feats (via Spell Perfection) to a Echoed copy of a spell?

Imagine a caster with Spell Perfection (Lightning Bolt) and the Echoing Spell feat. Could she continue to add Echoing Spell each time she casts it, never losing it from memory?


2 Answers 2



No effect that allows you to reprepare or recast a spell can affect the echoed spell.

While Echoing Spell doesn't explicitly call itself out, I'd certainly consider it an effect that allows re-casting and as such can't be re-applied.

So while Spell Perfection may allow you to add a metamagic feat to the second cast, it can't be a second (or third, or fourth...) Echoing Spell because Echoing Spell forbids it.


You can't "re-echo" an echoing spell

The rules for Echoing Spell feat state:

When you cast an echoing spell, it does not disappear entirely from memory, and you can cast it one additional time during that day. No effect that allows you to reprepare or recast a spell can affect the echoed spell.

(Emphasis mine)

So, this feat explicitly states you cannot gain more than one recasting of the spell.
Spell Perfection may allow you to add a single metamagic effect "for free" - but you cannot apply the Echoing Spell metamagic a second time on the same "echoed spell".

Bottomline - at most, you can double your casting potential if all your spells are echoed, but you can't gain a third casting using the same slot/casting-per-day...

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Wow. That's some unusual language in that feat. It's like the author just gave up or something. \$\endgroup\$ Oct 29, 2014 at 4:03
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yeah, but at least it's clear that he was aware that this feat might be abused, and that sentence is very difficult to misinterpret... \$\endgroup\$
    – G0BLiN
    Oct 29, 2014 at 11:54
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ The typical response to that is Then don't write the feat. Seriously, if the author can't figure out a way to balance the feat with the existence pearls of power--which have been around for nearly 40 years--, maybe the problem isn't the player. But I appreciate the author's sentiment. I do think many feats could probably benefit from the reminder text Don't be a jerk. \$\endgroup\$ Oct 29, 2014 at 16:32

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