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This is being specially challenging for me.

If there is one thing that I love doing with classes and races in D&D5e is tweaking the classes and races into something that feels new using the suggestions in the DMG.

I'm finding the Avenger specially challenging, though. I have an idea of how making it happen but I'd love to have an answer here that would point me to the right direction at least and hopefully, give me a solution to the problem.

The major problems with the Avenger are the following:

Their sword is directly guided by their god, therefore they could use a huge weapon without the need of Strength (They'd use WIS for attacks, AC and spells), but in 5e, they'd need Strength to be able to use a huge weapon, making them lack a decent AC. Avengers are not supposed to be strong, but they need to be deadly. It's their signature having a huge weapon plus and decent defense, plus they need to have some spark of divine powers (not healing ones, though, but things like "Turn Undead" that makes them feel kinda like clerics. They're supposed to be like inquisitors, I'd say). I've tried tweaking the cleric and the Avenger Paladin but nothing feels balanced enough.

So, how do I tweak a class (and what class) in a way I can make my player actually feel like he is playing an Avenger? What kind of tweaks should I make and what class should I use as baseline?

I expect something like the guide I made for the Invoker.

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closed as too broad by wax eagle, DuckTapeAl, Tynam, Miniman, Mala Jan 20 '15 at 0:26

Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.

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    \$\begingroup\$ This is probably too broad, what you're asking for is for us to develop home brew rules for you. What would probably be a better method for this would be to come up with your proposed solution and then ask us if we see any problems in implementing it. Basically you need to be further down the road of implementing this before it should be a question here. \$\endgroup\$ – wax eagle Jan 19 '15 at 15:11
  • \$\begingroup\$ @waxeagle I edited the question in the end so it would be more clear. I don't see a problem with my question. I didn't ask a detailed guide with 20 levels but more like a guideline of what features I'd have to change to solve the huge weapon low AC problem. I even posted a link now to the answer I gave to a similar question. And since I didn't see anything wrong with that one, I don't see anything wrong with mine either. \$\endgroup\$ – Davi Braid Jan 19 '15 at 15:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't seen the linked question. Questions like this are broad and opinion-based, because there's no objective way to judge which answer created the 'best' 5e Avenger. (Or Invoker, for that matter.) \$\endgroup\$ – Miniman Jan 19 '15 at 22:27
  • \$\begingroup\$ I've created a meta question about questions of this type. \$\endgroup\$ – Miniman Jan 19 '15 at 22:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Miniman actually, the DMG has some guidelines about how to do what is being asked in both questions. All I need is for somebody to point me in the right direction for balance's sake and I did answering the question about the Invoker and I believe I did a pretty good job. Now I can't figure out what to do with the Avenger and I hope someone can. It really isn't that complicated. \$\endgroup\$ – Davi Braid Jan 19 '15 at 23:14
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The key to making the Avenger the way you want is this rule.

From Page 4 from the Basic 5e Player's Guide

Specific beats general.

This book contains rules, especially in parts 2 and 3, that govern how the game plays. That said, many racial traits, class features, spells, magic items, monster abilities, and other game elements break the general rules in some way, creating an exception to how the rest of the game works. Remember this: If a specific rule contradicts a general rule, the specific rule wins. Exceptions to the rules are often minor. For instance, many adventurers don’t have proficiency with longbows, but every wood elf does because of a racial trait. That trait creates a minor exception in the game. Other examples of rule-breaking are more conspicuous. For instance, an adventurer can’t normally pass through walls, but some spells make that possible. Magic accounts for most of the major exceptions to the rules.

For example the Monk's AC is based on 10 + Dex bonus + Wis Bonus. Not so much for the mechanics but rather as an example of a class with an ability that overrides the general rule of what gets added to AC.

What I would do is layout a template with entries from 1st level to 20th level. Then starting with the lst level entries work your way up the full 20 levels. You could just start out with the class you consider the closest to an Avenger and modify things from there.

Here some example I did for my own campaign.

The Halfling Shadow (a monk variant)

The Berserker (it's own class but largely based on the barbarian, a holy warrior of Thor oriented to fighting monsters).

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  • \$\begingroup\$ I know all that already as mentioned in the question. I need the specifics that will make the class balanced. Your answer tells me that I can change a class but doesn't tell me how. Specially not how to change a class in a way it will feel balanced and more like the avenger. \$\endgroup\$ – Davi Braid Jan 19 '15 at 14:38

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