I'm working on a Centered Breath monk build, and had some questions on whether a certain combo functions properly. The overall intent of the build is to simultaneously gain the benefits of the Unseen Hand paragon path, and the Starblade Flurry and Crashing Tempest Style feats.

I would start a turn with club main hand, magic dagger off hand. I use Starblade Flurry to throw the dagger. After that, I would like to use quick draw to draw the hand crossbow with the flurry, use the free action reload from two fisted shooter to reload as a free action, then use the Fast Hands Thievery skill utility power to sheathe the crossbow as a free action before the dagger returns to my hand.

I'm fairly certain the quick draw works, since it's part of the attack action, and I've seen plenty of threads agreeing on flurry counting as an attack. What I'm not sure is when precisely the dagger returns, and if I'd have time to use my free actions to reload and sheath the crossbow (which I guess depends if the weapon returns at the end of the thrown action or after).

My DM is going to allow this regardless, because of how heavily I have to invest to make it work, but I'm just curious if RAW actually allows this.

  • \$\begingroup\$ @ethan one more q. Are you actually using magic weapons? Or a ki? \$\endgroup\$
    – wax eagle
    Jan 21, 2015 at 10:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ The intent was to use a magic dagger, so that it would return to my hand at the end of the flurry. \$\endgroup\$
    – Ethan
    Jan 21, 2015 at 20:30

1 Answer 1


This kind of works, kind of doesn't work, but mostly it's up to your DM to rule, I think he's got it right that rule of cool is the way to go here (even if the rules don't quite support it).

This is kind of a finicky question. Here are the triggers in play:

  • FoB: When you hit with an attack
  • Unseen Hand's Arms of the Unseen Way: " When you use your Flurry of Blows power, you can target an additional creature within 10 squares of you with that power by firing a loaded hand crossbow that you are holding."
  • Starblade Flurry: "When you use your Flurry of Blows power, you can add a single target within 5 squares of you by throwing a dagger or a shuriken that you have in hand"

This is actually oddly complicated. The problem I see, ultimately, is that the trigger for both of these things is the same, you use FoB, and the condition is the same "you are holding a specific weapon."

So this leaves us really needing to be holding both the loaded hand crossbow and the dagger at the same time. You could (And it seems have) make an argument to your DM that you can snatch the hand crossbow after you hurl the dagger, but you're left with a dagger at your feet because it comes back basically instantly, likely before you can expend even a free action to swap back to a free hand to catch it.

The other factor here is that because you want to use Quick Draw, you don't quite meet the conditions for either Unseen Hand or Starblade Flurry (both indicate that you need to be holding the weapon when you use FoB). However, this is something that's not well defined and most DMs are probably going to hand wave it. Basically Quick Draw is designed for situations like this, and even though it might not quite be RAW it's very close.

Really, the hitch here is that you want to be holding the club while you Flurry, if you were willing to let go of that you could sheathe that as a free, pull the hand crossbow with quick draw and then throw and shoot. The club can come back out as a free if you need an opportunity attack, or next turn when you attack.

Lastly, there is the fact that there is a good chance that you are not using actual magic weapons and are instead using a Ki Focus. In this case, you don't care about the fates of your daggers after you throw them. You still have the niggly bit about the triggers happening at the same time and you can't be holding them both, but it may be close enough that your game considers them to both be valid. After that you're just left with needing to draw another dagger at some point, which, with Quick Draw is trivial.

So, final judgement, does this work via RAW? There are a lot of moving parts here, but I'd have to say that, no, it doesn't quite work by RAW. However, there aren't really too many balance concerns here (it's really one extra target to flurry and a bit of extra damage) and I'd have to say that as a DM, the investment you've put into this combo means that it would work at just about any table you head to with this character.


You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .