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What IS an Outsider vs a Native and what is the Extraplanar subtype?

To my understanding an Outsider is from another plane so they have the Extraplanar subtype added when on a different plane than their own. But what is a native and how does that work with all of this?

Also is there a limit to the number of subtypes a PC can have?

In this case I want to know how this would work out:

  • A changeling with the Dark Template (p.161 from Tome of Magic) than taking the Human Heritage feat (p.152 Races of Destiny)

  • A changeling is a Humanoid (Shapechanger)

  • The Dark Template says "Type and size are unchanged. Dark creatures encountered away from the Plane of Shadow have the extraplanar subtype."

  • While the Human Heritage feat says:

    "You are treated as a humanoid with the human subtype for the purpose of adjudicating all effects. If you are not a humanoid, your type changes to humanoid and you gain the human subtype. If you are already a humanoid, you gain the human subtype. In either case, you retain any other subtypes you had (such as orc or extraplanar), and you retain any traits common to all creatures of your original type (such as darkvision)."

Would that make this PC a Native rather than an Outsider?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ It's a bit hard to figure out what exactly your question is. Is this a lore question on "what an extraplanar" is? Are you interested in a list of the various extraplanar species out there? I'm not really sure. \$\endgroup\$ – Theik Apr 3 '15 at 8:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ I cut it short and re-worded it to cut to the chase. \$\endgroup\$ – NirvEND Apr 3 '15 at 8:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ I think it would be best to make the question regarding the max number of subtypes a different question because it's a different kind of question. \$\endgroup\$ – Thomas Jacobs Apr 3 '15 at 9:17
  • \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to the site. Take the tour. The help and ? buttons are actually useful. Have fun. As the site saves previous versions of questions, edits needn't be signaled in the text. Thank you for participating. \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan Apr 3 '15 at 9:38
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You can be an Extraplanar Native Outside, but only if you're not "home". And a Humanoid (Native, Dark, Shapechanger) is NOT an outsider.

Let's grab the D20SRD for this:

Native:

A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name).

Extraplanar:

A subtype applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. Creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane.

Empathis mine.

A Native Outsider is, as per the Native subtype rules, native to the Material Plane. It remains an Outsider but it can be raised with lower-level resurrection spells and cannot be banished, at the cost of the need of food and drink.

Being Native to the Material Plane means that you're not an Extraplanar when on the Matetrial. But when you travel to another Plane you gain the Extraplanar subtype, making your vulnerable to spells such as Dismissal and Banishment. As such, the Extraplanar template is situational and any creature can gain and lose it the moment they Planeswalk. Normally Outsiders on the Material would be vulnerable to this (because they're also Extraplanar because they're not on their home plane), but since you're a Native Outsider you cannot be affected by them.

So in short: Native Outsiders live on the Prime and are treated as inhabitants of that Plane (think Material-born Tieflings and Genasi), while Extraplanar Native Outsiders are those same creatures when they leave their home plane. Note that when you're on a Transistive Plane (the Astral, Ethereal and Shadow) you do NOT become an Extraplanar.

That being said...

What you want is a Humanoid (Native, Dark, Shapechanger). A Changeling is a Humanoid (Shapechanger). Then you add the Dark template making it a Dark Changeling (Dark, Shapechanger). But you want to make it Native to the Material, so it becomes a Dark Changeling (Native, Dark, Shapechanger).

As you see, it does NOT become an Outsider. Outsiders are traditionally beings of the Inner and Outer Planes, such as celestials, fiends and genies. The Khayal Genie on the next page of the book Tome of Magic (p. 162) is an Outsider native to the Plane of Shadow. Do not be confused by its Extraplanar subtype: that is how they are encountered on the Material Plane. But a Changeling is a Humanoid with the Shapechanger Subtype, and as such NOT an Outsider. So the Outsider type is not used in the making of such a creature.

So how to you become a Native Dark Shapechanger?

The Shapechanger comes automatically with being a Changeling. Dark is a given template with a +1 LA from Tome of Magic. As for becoming a Native, this is not easy to do. One way to do this, if you're of appropriate level and meet the other requirements, is to become a Saint (Book of Exalted Deeds, p.185). While this comes with a +2 Level Modifyer and a whole slew of other problems (required feats, alignment), it is the easiest and less prohibitively expensive way to become an Outsider (Native). Other ways include becoming an Axiomatic or Anarchic creature, but those carry extreme level modifiers (+4 and +5). There are ways to do this without level modifying templates, but those often come at the end of long rides on the Prestige Class train (at least level 14 if you're some kind of Cleric 3/Paladin 2/Divine Agent 9 monster).

But do consider to solve the Native problem by asking your DM if you can be a Native to the Material instead of Shadow.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks for the response. I was really confused about the whole outsider/extraplanar thing. I had hopes that in some fashion the dark template extraplanar on the material plane could be over written to native instead. Such as being born or more mortal/attached to the material plane ex. with human heritage \$\endgroup\$ – NirvEND Apr 3 '15 at 9:41
  • \$\begingroup\$ @NirvEND I updated my answer because the question changed. And I came to the conclusion that Outsiders have nothing to do with what you want to make. \$\endgroup\$ – Thomas Jacobs Apr 3 '15 at 10:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yeah I learned that thanks to you all. Tho how can I make the dark template native? :o I would think story wise but I need it to be pretty heavy because I feel our DM wants to keep it extraplanar. \$\endgroup\$ – NirvEND Apr 3 '15 at 20:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ I updated, but the answer not really allows for much space to work with. Becoming Native either takes a lot of levels in prestige classes or really LA expensive templates. \$\endgroup\$ – Thomas Jacobs Apr 4 '15 at 0:00
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A creature with the type outsider can possess the subtypes extraplanar, native, or both, but a creature that's not an outsider can only possess the subtype extraplanar not the subtype native

The type outsider is for a creature that

is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.

The subtype extraplanar is

A subtype applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. Creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, and the Plane of Shadow.

Emphasis mine. The subtype native is

A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

Emphasis mine. Thus, a creature can be an outsider [native] on its home plane and an outsider [extraplanar, native] on a plane other than its home plane. A different creature can be an outsider on its home plane and an outsider [extraplanar] on a plane other than its home plane. Finally, a creature on its home plane can just be an outsider.

A changeling (Races of Eberron 41), which normally possesses the type humanoid [shapechanger] that gains the template dark (Tome of Magic 161) doesn't change its type but gains when not on the Plane of Shadow the subtype extraplanar, making its type humanoid [extraplanar, shapechanger]. That same creature, were it to take the feat Humanoid Heritage (Races of Destiny 161) doesn't change type (as it's type is already humanoid) but gains the subtype human, making its list of type and subtypes when on a plane other than the Plane of Shadow humanoid [extraplanar, human, shapechanger]. On the Plane of Shadow, such a creature loses the subtype extraplanar.

Picking up the type outsider and the subtype native is an ability of some, usually high-level, characters (e.g. the Mnk20 special ability perfect self).1

There is no limit to the number of subtypes a creature can possesses, even if some are contradictory (e.g. a creature can have both the subtype cold and the subtype fire).2 There're occasionally advantages to having a large number of subtypes, as any subtype will usually offer something or is a requirement for something, but many subtypes sit on a creature's sheet doing nothing until a ranger with the right favored enemy stabs the creature harder.


1 This should not be construed as encouragement to play a monk.
2 That creature is a usually a wacky barbarian whose player is trying to confuse the DM.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you very much for the response I was under the impression that being extraplanar meant you were from or of a plane other than the material & that a native was merely born or more mortal than an extraplanar. Thanks for clearing that up. ===== Is it possible to override the Extraplanar outside shadow plane with the dark template in some way? Such as being born in the material plane and having the human heritage to solidify your attachment to it? \$\endgroup\$ – NirvEND Apr 3 '15 at 9:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ @user22175 Welcome to the morass that is D&D 3.5 creature typing. If you found either or both my answer or the answer from ThomasJacobs useful, it's polite to upvote it. You should also wait a day or two to accept any answers to see if another, better answer comes along. \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan Apr 3 '15 at 9:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ It seems to me like the term 'native' makes things more confusing than it need be, as it sounds like 'native' is the opposite of 'extraplanar', which is only true as long as you are actually on the material plane. It should most likely have been called material-native or something to indicate that they are 'native to the material plane', not 'native to the plane they happen to be on at the moment'. \$\endgroup\$ – Theik Apr 3 '15 at 9:53
  • \$\begingroup\$ @NirvEND No, not using that template. A lucky dismissal spell et al. sends the dark changeling to his home plane, the Plane of Shadow. However, it's valid to ask another question like How can a creature with the extraplanar subtype avoid being sent forcibly back to its native plane? That's the kind of wacky, narrow question the site thrives on. \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan Apr 3 '15 at 10:02
  • \$\begingroup\$ Hey thanks again I will be sure to upvote once I can. Apparently simply registering doesn't give me enough reputation to upvote in my own question. \$\endgroup\$ – NirvEND Apr 3 '15 at 10:04

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