Is there a way that an erudite (Complete Psionic 153-6) with the expanded class option convert spell to power (The Mind's Eye Web column "Expanded Classes, Part Four: Ardent, Divine Mind, Lurk, and Erudite") can manifest as a power a 9th-level or higher spell?

Such an erudite, according to the article, "treat[s] the spell as a discipline power for the basis of learning it," but the typical erudite "can learn a discipline-only power only if it is up to 1 level lower than the highest level power he can manifest" (CP 154). So even if "each time [an erudite] achieves a new level, he unlocks the knowledge of two new powers of any level or levels that he can manifest (according to his new level) from the psion/wilder power list" (CP 154), he can still only convert to powers spells of 8th-level or less.

Is there a psionic version of the epic feat Improved Spell Capacity? (The epic feat Improved Manifestation does not actually let an erudite manifest 10th-level powers.) Can such an erudite take the feat Epic Expanded Knowledge and select a spell that's converted to a power?

How can this be done?

  • \$\begingroup\$ Essentially yes, the way Psionics works however removes the need for higher level spell slots (Since the max power level is 9 anyway). Psionics scale by augmenting powers by spending extra power points. I don't think I could get an actual 10th level power slot like taking improved spell capacity would grant a spellcaster. That's why i'm looking for some suggestions on this. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 15, 2015 at 18:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ Regarding Psionic-magic transparency I think it's supposed to be full transparency sadly. I really liked the uniqueness of psionics and they're still really cool but it's kind of annoying having to deal with spell resistance and all that on my powers. Full transparency is supposed to be the default according to my "friend" if you can really call him that. Thanks a lot to "Hey I Can Chan", you really made my question a lot clearer and the links are great. I really appreciate it. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 15, 2015 at 20:55

1 Answer 1


An epic erudite takes the feat Epic Manifestation

Originally presented in the Epic Level Handbook under the Variant: Epic Psionic Seeds (102), the feat Epic Manifestation doesn't appear on the SRD's list of epic feats, instead appearing only in the text describing Epic Psionic Powers (making it a contender in the Most Obscure Feat competition), but the feat Epic Manifestation functions for a psion like the feat Epic Spellcasting functions for a caster.

The feat Epic Manifestation allows an epic erudite to convert 9th-level spells into powers because Epic Psionic Powers says

Generally, all the epic spell rules work for epic powers as well, except as noted below for displays.

and Epic Spell Levels says

Epic spells have no fixed level. However, for purposes of Concentration checks, spell resistance, and other possible situations where spell level is important, epic spells are all treated as if they were 10th-level spells.

Emphasis mine. An argument can be made that this is a case wherein spell level is important.

Note that, while this method is less shady than many alternatives (e.g. here, here, here), this method still needs the DM's approval, and I suspect some conservative DMs would tell the epic erudite to content himself with 9th-level psionic powers and 8th-level spells.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you very much! This should be just what I needed, we're using a different epic spell system much to my dismay but this still should be enough to show that it was intended to be possible to get 9th level spells as powers by epic levels. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 16, 2015 at 0:28
  • \$\begingroup\$ @NascourShades Good for the DM for changing how epic spells work... unless the DM made epic spells easier to use, any change to epic spells is probably for the better. (See this question.) Also, you're welcome. \$\endgroup\$ Jul 16, 2015 at 12:23

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