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So it goes like this: I am using the ghost template. I acquired the undead type. After this I applied the template Divine minion which states:

Size and Type: The creature's type changes to outsider, and any alignment subtypes it has changes to match the corresponding alignment subtypes of its deity.

After these two, I applied Unseelie fey and Half-Fey.

The question is, what is my type now? What is my hit dice? Can I take them at different times to maximize the HD and in the end still have the type outsider and subtype evil?

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  • \$\begingroup\$ What sources do Divine Minion, Unseylie Fey, and Half-Fey come from? \$\endgroup\$ – minnmass Jul 27 '15 at 1:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ There we go, ill write what sourcebooks they came from if needed \$\endgroup\$ – Simon Jul 27 '15 at 1:24
  • \$\begingroup\$ Judging by the flavour, Unseelie Fey is an inherited template, and a more diluted version of Half, so I don't think the 2 would stack. I'm also not sure about Ghost and Divine Minion stacking, but I'll leave that for someone more experienced with Templates \$\endgroup\$ – Nyoze Jul 27 '15 at 1:39
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Simon By RAW, Unseelie Fey is neither an inherited nor an acquired template. So it isn't applied at birth, and it can't be applied later in life. Technically, by RAW, the Unseelie Fey template can't be applied at all. =P However, yes, the template descriptions as given on that site are poorly written such as to not prevent them from being mutually exclusive, despite the concept of a Half-Fey Fey-descended Fey being completely illogical. \$\endgroup\$ – Michaellogg Jul 27 '15 at 2:26
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    \$\begingroup\$ Could you provide some context for what you're trying to accomplish here? \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan Jul 27 '15 at 2:28
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Note: What the question posits doesn't do what the querent wants it to, but I've gone through the steps anyway so it can be seen where the process falls apart. Skip to the end if uninterested in the process's nuts and bolts.

First, apply inherited templates in a legal order...

Officially, the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 rules from the Monster Manual for applying templates supersede the Dungeons and Dragons, Third Edition rules from Savage Species, including that text's type pyramid (142-4). An individual DM can, of course, adapt those rules to Dungeons and Dragon 3.5, but needn't (and, I'd advise, shouldn't). The Monster Manual on Acquired and Inherited Templates says that

Other templates, known as inherited templates, are part of a creature from the beginning of its existence. Examples include the celestial, fiendish, half-celestial, half-dragon, and half-fiend templates—all assume the creature was born with the template. (291)

and on Reading a Template says that

If a template changes the base creature’s type, the creature also acquires the augmented subtype (see page 306) unless the template description indicates otherwise. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. For example, a unicorn with the half-celestial template is an outsider with the augmented magical beast subtype. Unless a template indicates otherwise, the new creature has the traits of the new type but the features of the original type. (291)

So templates, then, alter the creature in the ways they say they alter the creature. Order can be important, but templates do what templates do.

Anyway, the template half-fey (Fiend Folio 89-90) says that the template

is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal living creature... . The creature’s type changes to fey.

The template unseelie fey (Dragon Compendium Volume 1 222-3) says that the template

can be added to any living creature type... The creature's type becomes "fey." (223)

The omission of either acquired or inherited is odd as templates are either one or the other (MM 291), so just looking at the template unseelie fey puts the reader in house rules territory. Confer with the DM, but the description indicates the template should probably be an inherited one:

The offspring of [evil fey] liaisons [with other creatures] are unusual creatures, blending characteristics of both parents, sometimes able to pass as a parent's creature type. In turn, these half-breeds mate and pass on a blend of features and abilities. After several generations, these mixed creatures often resemble things out of nightmares or a mad wizard's experiment. (222)

Either way, at least one and I assume both templates must be applied to the creature first, so I'm going to apply these templates to a moon elf, making the moon elf's type fey (augmented fey, augmented humanoid).1,2,3

...Then apply acquired templates in whatever order the DM allows...

Before trying to do more, finish the remaining steps of character creation (PH 6).

Becoming a Divine Minion

The creature gains its level 1 feat during character creation, and it needs to pick this feat:

  • The regional feat Otherworldly (Player's Guide to Faerûn 41-2) turns into a native outsider a deep imaskari (Underdark 9-10), spirit folk (Unapproachable East 13-14), or elf.4 As a Forgotten Realms regional feat, this must be taken at level 1, and it must be the creature's only regional feat.

This (or something like this) must be done because, otherwise, the template divine minion can't be acquired. The Magic Books of Faerûn Web column "Hate of the Cobra (Spells from the Church of Set)" says

that [the template Mulhorandi divine minion] can be added to any humanoid, monstrous humanoid, humanoid or monstrous humanoid with the celestial or fiendish template, or humanoid-shaped outsider...

And, unfortunately, fey isn't one of the listed types. So the half-fey unseelie fey moon elf from Evermeet cleric 1 of Set after having taken the feat Otherworldly—her type changing to outsider (native, augmented humanoid, augmented fey ×2)—, is then picked by a Mulhorandi god to become a divine minion. That's despite

The vast majority [of divine minions] resembl[ing] Mulhorandi men or women... . Most divine minions are created from a god's mortal servants (usually humans with six or more class levels in barbarian, fighter, paladin, or rogue)

but whatever. It happened.5,6

Becoming a Ghost

Then the divine minion half-fey unseelie fey moon elf from Evermeet cleric 1 of Set with the feat Otherworldly has adventures until she achieves enough XP to advance to level 2.

The Savage Progressions Web column "Gaining a Template Midcampaign" on the General Rules for Template Classes says that

A character may take a level in a template class as long as the DM approves and the character has earned enough XP to gain a level.

Now, I don't really know what happens at this point narratively to reflect the game's mechanics because, here, the character's supposed to die then advance as a ghost. That's not usually a choice. A character doesn't just, like, go around stabbing himself and hoping. But let's say the DM approves.

What this also means is that a creature can't enter play with only a template class.7 Silver lining? The template class ghost isn't restricted to specific types like the for-reals template ghost (MM 116-8), instead

"Ghost" is an acquired template usually gained upon an intelligent creature's death.

Thus, the divine minion half-fey unseelie fey moon elf from Evermeet cleric 1 of Set / ghost 1, upon having gained that first level in the template class ghost, gains the natural ability undeath, and

her type changes to "undead (augmented humanoid)," and she gains all the normal benefits and drawbacks that go with that type.

And, while I know it's silly for, for example, a beholder, displacer beast, or even a divine minion half-fey unseelie fey moon elf from Evermeet cleric 1 of Set to have its type and subtypes changed by the template class ghost first level ability undeath to undead (augmented humanoid), that is what happens, the quotation marks making sure you write that down on your character sheet exactly like it says.

Becoming Dissatisfied

Whatever types and subtypes the creature had struggled to acquire before now are obviated by—I kid you not—those quotation marks in the template class ghost's ability undeath, that specific ability overriding the general rules on Reading a Template (MM 291).

(Note that a generous DM may allow this level 2 creature to use from the Player's Handbook II the rules for Class Level Rebuilding (197-8) to replace that level of cleric with a level of the template class ghost.)

...But this combination of templates doesn't allow the creature enter the prestige class fiend of possession

The prestige class fiend of possession (Fiend Folio 204-7) has as a requirement that the character's race be outsider with the evil subtype. When all's said and done, the divine minion half-fey unseelie fey moon elf from Evermeet or Sidëyuir cleric 1 / ghost 1 is an undead (augmented humanoid).

Alternatives

  • The minor ritual Ritual of Alignment (SS 148) takes a level 7 caster with the evil domain 1 day to perform. You'll pay 56,000 gp, 2,240 XP, and make a Will save (DC 10 if you're already evil). Success means gaining the subtype evil.
  • The major ritual Wish (SS 150) takes a level 17 caster (who can cast spell wish, obviously) 1 standard action to perform. You'll pay at least 26,530 gp, and the DM's allowed to be a jerk and deny you all the cool stuff of the new form, but, if nothing else, you'll probably get the creature's type and maybe its subtypes. Hell, shoot for a balor, I guess?
  • Under laboratory conditions and using a strict reading of prestige class requirements, the 4th-level Clr spell lesser infernal transformation [trans] (Spell Compendium 122) for 1 round/level changes the caster's type to outsider (baatezu, evil, lawful). The creature then must gain enough XP to advance a level while affected by the spell. Once that's done, the spell can be allowed to lapse but the creature can continue taking levels in the prestige class. (Tip: This is considered by some to be at least mildly shady.)

Notes
1 Keep in mind that some contend the template unseelie fey should have a higher Level Adjustment than +0 (q.v. threads from 2011 and 2013).
2 The creature's challenge rating, however, should be increased by +1 as per the Compendium errata.
3 The DM can look at such a character with a jaundiced eye, however, and totally choose not to allow the half-fey unseelie fey into the campaign. Really, such a DM may opine, can a creature's type change to the creature type it already is? Or, alternatively, can a creature's type become the creature type the creature already has?
4 I guessed that you'd pick elf, but, given the question, who knows?
5 Scholars suspect alcohol was a factor.
6 I'm guessing that the template divine minion was included because of this:

The creature's type changes to outsider, and any alignment subtypes it has changes to match the corresponding alignment subtypes of its deity.

Yet a typical creature has no alignment subtypes to change, and neither does, for example, a half-fey unseelie fey moon elf from Evermeet cleric 1 of Set with the feat Otherworldly. A DM who owes you money might, in exchange for blanking the debt, grant a divine minion a subtype anyway, but as written, the template doesn't grant one.
7 At level 1 a character is created (PH 6); after level 1, levels are advanced (PH 58-9).

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"Mulhorandi divine minion" (hereafter "divine minion") is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid, monstrous humanoid, humanoid or monstrous humanoid with the celestial or fiendish template, or humanoid-shaped outsider (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

"Ghost" is an acquired template that can be added to any aberration, animal, dragon, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or plant. The creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature) must have a Charisma score of at least 6.

Once you have the Ghost template, your type changes to Undead. Therefore, you no longer qualify to have the Divine Minion template added once you are a Ghost. Similarly, the Divine Minion template changes your type to Outsider, so once you take it, you no longer qualify for the Ghost template.

So unfortunately, it's impossible for a single creature to take both templates...unless you take yet another template between them that somehow changes your type to a valid one. Plus, taking either of the Fey-based templates you mentioned changes your type to Fey, which means you already don't qualify for EITHER of the other templates, and being inherited templates, they must be taken first, at character creation.

However, this may not actually be possible. I can't find a proper source, but I recall a listing of "tiers" of types that can override each other, with certain types overriding any future changes. I seem to recall both Outsider and Undead being in the group that can't change any further once you have them. As I said, though, I don't have a source for that, so I can't be completely certain.

EDIT: The Type Pyramid appears in the book Savage Species, pages 142-143, and states that once a creature is a Construct, Outsider, or Undead, their type will no longer change. Granted, Savage Species is a 3.0 book, but lacking any 3.5-specific information that states otherwise, it's a good guideline to use.

Construct, Outsider, Undead: These three types reside at the top of the pyramid. Once a creature becomes an undead or a construct through the application of a template, it cannot become something else. Once a creature stops being a native of the Material Plane, it becomes an outsider and stays one.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Ah, but with this feat "dndtools.pw/feats/players-guide-to-faerun--22/…" It would be possible to change from ghost to divine minion, no? Also can you source why I change to fey? Cannot see it on the site. Also "augmented humanoid"? From ghost template \$\endgroup\$ – Simon Jul 27 '15 at 2:01
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Simon Both fey templates state that the creature type changes to Fey when the template is applied, Half-Fey in the first paragraph, Unseelie in the first paragraph under the "Creating an Unseelie Fey" header. The feat you linked here must be taken at 1st level, and changes your type to Outsider, making you no longer qualify for the Ghost template. \$\endgroup\$ – Michaellogg Jul 27 '15 at 2:06
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Simon As stated, once Undead or Outsider, the type can't be overridden, so you would be unable to make yourself qualify. I'm not sure how you intend to become a Ghost before level 1, especially if you're planning to take Ghost AS your first level, but being that the feat is a Regional feat and thus deals with the circumstances of your birth, it doesn't seem possible to do anything any earlier than that. Finally, no, only primary type relates to qualifying for templates unless explicitly stated otherwise, the Augmented subtype has no significance. \$\endgroup\$ – Michaellogg Jul 27 '15 at 2:35
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Simon If your GM has already approved it, why are you even asking? If not, stating that the GM MIGHT approve it has no significance. Also, not sure I understand what you mean by "regional is no problem." \$\endgroup\$ – Michaellogg Jul 27 '15 at 2:42
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I don't think it's possible to get all of the templates stacked together, though RAW might just sneak 3 of the 4 together.

First, some relevant sections of the linked descriptions:

Divine Minion:

"Mulhorandi divine minion" (hereafter "divine minion") is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid, monstrous humanoid, humanoid or monstrous humanoid with the celestial or fiendish template, or humanoid-shaped outsider (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

The creature's type changes to outsider, and any alignment subtypes it has changes to match the corresponding alignment subtypes of its deity. <snip> Do not recalculate the creature's Hit Dice..."

Ghost:

"Ghost" is an acquired template usually gained upon an intelligent creature's death.

A ghost is the undead spirit of a slain person. Thus, at 1st level, her type changes to "undead (augmented humanoid)," and <undead stuff about CON and such>. All of her Hit Dice (current and future) increase to d12s.

Unseelie Fey:

"Unseelie fey" is a template that can be added to any living creature type (referred to hereafter as the "base creature"). The creature's type becomes "fey." It uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Half-Fey:

Half-fey is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal living creature referred to hereafter as the base creature. The creatures type changes to fey.

What can be combined?

Half-Fey plus Divine Minion is the hardest combination to get working, as Half-Fey is an Inherited Template, so it must be applied at character creation. Being born as a Half-Fey would rule out becoming a Divine Minion, as your type would be Fey rather than Humanoid.

Unseelie Fey doesn't specify whether it's an Inherited or Acquired Template, but it reads like an Inherited one ("The offspring of these liaisons are unusual creatures..."). Thus, it and Divine Minion are likely incompatible. If your GM rules that Unseelie Fey is an Applied Template, you may be able to apply it to a Divine Minion, but only if you're not using Savage Species' "type pyramid": as an Outsider, a Divine Minion wouldn't be able to change their type to Fey.

Assuming you're using Savage Species' "type pyramid", an Undead cannot become an Outsider, nor vice-versa; thus, a Ghost cannot become a Divine Minion nor vice-versa. If you're not using the "type pyramid", a Ghost can become a Divine Minion or vice-versa (the order depends on whether you want to wind up as Undead or an Outsider; notably, a strict reading of the RAW would suggest becoming a Ghost first, as becoming a Divine Minion later would give you back a CON score, and your HD would stay at d12s).

There is nothing in the RAW, however, preventing a Half-Fey, Unseelie Fey from existing, nor from it becoming a Ghost upon its death.

However, you do it, becoming a Ghost means that the Ghost template is the last that affects Hit Dice; therefore, all of its HD would increase to d12s (and, the pseudo-class linked has rules for avoiding re-rolling HD).

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  • \$\begingroup\$ So if i were to use it would it deny the template or add everything but the type change? \$\endgroup\$ – Simon Jul 27 '15 at 2:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ "There is nothing in the RAW, however, preventing a Half-Fey, Unseelie Fey from existing, nor from it becoming a Ghost upon its death." Actually, the Ghost template specifies that it can't be applied to Fey, and both those templates change your type to Fey. Also, assuming you're pretending Unseelie Fey is an Acquired template, are applying it to a Divine Minion, and are using the Type Pyramid, you could still apply Unseelie Fey, it simply wouldn't change your type because you were already stuck at Outsider. \$\endgroup\$ – Michaellogg Jul 27 '15 at 2:39
  • \$\begingroup\$ @MikeKellogg: the linked Ghost pseudo-class specifies that it can be applied to an intelligent creature. This differs from the standard Ghost template: d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghost.htm (which threw me for a bit, too). \$\endgroup\$ – minnmass Jul 27 '15 at 2:41
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Simon: "So if i were to use 'the Type Pyramid' would it deny the template...?"? Yes, it'd deny the template: "Once a creature becomes an undead or a construct through the application of a template, it cannot become something else. Once a creature stops being a native of the Material Plane, it becomes an outsider and stays one." P144 does have a sidebar "Breaking the Rules" which talks about an Undead Outsider as explicitly "territory not covered by the rules". \$\endgroup\$ – minnmass Jul 27 '15 at 2:45
  • \$\begingroup\$ @minnmass True enough, though since it's intended as a conversion of the Ghost template to a template class, that seems to be simply an oversight. However, RAW, you're correct. \$\endgroup\$ – Michaellogg Jul 27 '15 at 2:46

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