Last night I ran a fun scene with one of my players putting himself into the debt of a Sidhe, and then proceeding to continuously dig the hole deeper.

End result is I used him as an opportunity to dig a new plot line for myself, and forcibly changed his template from 'Changeling', to 'pure mortal', to 'winter knight'. Reasonably sure that progression is completely legal, by the Lore at least.

But now one of the other players, who isn't happy with his character, is wondering if he can roll a white court virgin who becomes the summer knight.

I'm 100% certain that the mantle cannot be passed to a changeling -- the point is to have a human in the position to do what the fey cannot. I'm also 100% certain that the pure mortal template isn't a requirement, because

Dresden becomes the Winter Knight in changes.

I'm tempted to say yes, because this is going to become a hilarious party as a result, but I'm also worried I should say no, because that's going to be a difficult dichotomy to manage -- especially with some of my planned adventures. And of course, there's always the concern of negative refresh if he ever feeds. But my real concern is the lore -- I want to be reasonably consistent with the books, and they don't cover everything as well as I might like. So are the requirements spelled out anywhere? Are there any obvious lore issues I haven't seen?

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    \$\begingroup\$ From a source material point of view, changelings can become knights; Fix becomes the Summer Knight well before the person you mentioned becomes the Winter Knight. \$\endgroup\$
    – Oblivious Sage
    Sep 18, 2015 at 18:58
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    \$\begingroup\$ There's definitely of a white court vamp with the potential to become Winter knight, as well. I'll hunt down a good source when I get home. \$\endgroup\$ Sep 18, 2015 at 19:09
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ObliviousSage good point. I always made the mental assumption that he had to choose the mortal half of his heritage first, but that isn't spelled out. I suppose if a changeling became the knight, and embraced his fae heritage, the queens would just kill him to recover the mantle. (Or maybe it would automagically vacate him when he ceased being eligible). \$\endgroup\$
    – RonLugge
    Sep 19, 2015 at 17:08

1 Answer 1


The requirements are never explicitly spelled out. The Queens are the ones with the rulebook, and they ain't talkin.

In general, the Knights exist to do things that Fae Queens cannot, and the element of free will that human mortals bring is an important part of that equation. That said, strict vanillaness is not exactly required. Mab had at one point mused that Thomas would make a good Knight if Harry fell (although, Mab being Mab, could be deceptive here). Fix also became a Knight as a Changeling, but it was stated by Jim Butcher that this amounted to a choice to become mortal and not Fae.

My interpretation is that as long as the refresh math keeps you out of negative (that being the measure of free will), and as long as the recepient is at least part living human mortal, the Knight Mantle can be received.

If you are not sure about where the border should lie, you could always play the same plot as Fix. The Fae have at least some power over the phages that power part-vampires, and a Queen's price for receiving the mantle can be set as the loss of a character's inhumanity (or parts of it).

Last note I will add on - the duties of Winter and Summer Knight are exact opposites. They literally exist to counter each other, although it's more complicated than that, and most frequent cause of death among Knights is an encounter with the other. If this happens as you lay out, you really wont have a party, you'll have a running duel. But if that's what you're aiming for.... have fun?

  • \$\begingroup\$ Yeah, the countering each other thing is probably going to be difficult -- hence my desire to say 'no'. On the flip side, the story I'm coming up with will allow them to co-operate against a common foe, something we know their natures allow (if with difficulty). I'm going to throw this out to the group and get their input as well -- I'm still trying to gather all the relevant information at this point, so I can help inform them as best as possible as to possible consequences of their decision. (I'm striving to go with the mentor approach to DMing, not the Lord and God approach) \$\endgroup\$
    – RonLugge
    Sep 19, 2015 at 17:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ Well, I'll point out that the faery knights in the Dresden Files universe are still mortals with free will. If they want to work together, they'll still be able to, even if their mantles and their bosses might not be entirely happy about it. \$\endgroup\$
    – nick012000
    Dec 8, 2017 at 6:34

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