I could have sworn we had a question on this already, but I can't find it via Google or RPG.SE's search bar.

A little background: EN World's Patreon-supported publication Trailseeker just released a new hybrid class, which is a druidic take on the wizard class. One of its potential focuses is on summon nature's ally, with that path's late-game ability increasing the total number of summoned creatures by one. I know I've seen an ability like that before in a non-3pp product (maybe Advanced Class Guide), so I don't feel this question is third-party specific, but this was the first time I'd seen that ability side-by-side with the Superior Summoning feat (which can be taken by that path as a bonus feat) and I realized...

Superior Summoning increases the number of monsters you get from a summon spell by one, if and only if the spell would already summon more than one monster. There's a related question on the Paizo forums about whether or not Superior Summoning kicks in if you summon monsters from one list lower and roll a 1, but today I'm looking at its synergistic capability with summon-enhancers: If I summon a creature from the top list a spell can access, thus normally summoning only one of that creature, will a class feature that allows me to summon an additional creature ALSO trigger Superior Summoning for a third creature? Or is there some "order of effects" or something else I'm missing?

  • \$\begingroup\$ What's the name of this Trailseeker hybrid class? The language the class's special ability may be important for answering the question. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Nov 25, 2015 at 17:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ @HeyICanChan Clockwork Druid, but I'm less concerned with the specific class than with any ability like it. I swear I can find one in Paizo, I'm just still looking. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Nov 25, 2015 at 18:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ O, I get that, but I'm concerned about the opening of the feat Superior Summon's benefit that says Each time you cast a summoning spell that conjures more than one creature (and perhaps you're wondering also) if that means the spell must do the multi-creature conjuring or if the caster's special abilities that modify the spell then count as the spell doing the multi-creature conjuring. For example, if the effect says When you cast a spell, the spell summons an extra creature then it's crystal, but if the effect says you summon an extra creature then it's mud. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Nov 25, 2015 at 18:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ @HeyICanChan yeah, you basically summed up my entire question. I'll pull exact wording for both the ability and the feat shortly. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Nov 25, 2015 at 18:22

1 Answer 1


There is no defined order of effects, no.

This is generally taken to mean that the controller of the effects may choose to use them in whichever order is most beneficial to him or her. I’m about 95% sure that 3.5 codified that somewhere, but I don’t think it was in core so I don’t know if Pathfinder ever wrote that down anywhere.

Still, in the absence of a defined order, it makes the most sense for the person who has the abilities to control the order.

  • \$\begingroup\$ There is some information in rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/44374/… that may help you put more information in this answer. It is using 3.5 rules and the FAQ, but may be the closest we can find. (Plus you referenced thinking this was outlined somewhere for 3.5 but not pathfinder and i couldnt find anything for pathfinder either.) \$\endgroup\$
    – Mayshar
    Commented Dec 10, 2015 at 19:02

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .