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In my current round an interesting case appeared. I have 2 players 1 being a werewolf and 1 being a mage.

The werewolf thanks to predatory aura put the submissive condition on the mage (and succeeded). The submissive means the mage needs to spend 1 willpower and succeed on a roll in order to defy the wishes of the werewolf.

Now the mage asked me if immediately after getting that condition as he is a mind mage if he can remove that condition or bolster his willpower points in order to resist/remove the condition immediately again.

At first thought I said no as that would be going against the wishes of the werewolf instignating that condition (that the other is submissive to him). He would have to use a wp and successfully roll the roll mentioned in the condition in order to be able to cast those spells with the intention of negatinv the condition (as he would defy the werewolves wishes there with it).

Now my question here is simple. Is this interpretation of the rules correct?

Info about tags: I used chronicles of darkness to make sure that we are using 2nd edition rules where possible (thus werewolf 2nd and mage 1st edition atm as mage 2nd didn't release so far).

Edit: Thanks to a friend of mine I noticed that the submissive condition does no longer exist in the current version (it was only in the first version of the 2nd edition werewolf and was replaced later on). Still though the question is the same as it is about the same sort of thing happening.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ @Ahriman As it is a condition that is the result of a werewolves predatory aura and is used in their hunt and one tribe of them specialices in hunting humans and supernaturals (vampires,.....) I dare say that the condition itself can affect and thus be applied to a mage (especially as the vampire predatory aura affects also all like werewolves and the werewolf aura is mentioned in their predatory aura entry that it works similarily ;) ). \$\endgroup\$ – Thomas E. Jan 19 '16 at 15:57
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    \$\begingroup\$ @ahriman since when? (aka where does it state that? especially as it is especially mentioned "prey" and from iron masters "Iron Masters also claim as their prey other supernatural beings that hide among the masses of humanity: vampires, mages, and stranger things still fall under the Iron Masters’ purview." thus their 'prey' are also vampire,mages,....). Thus would be interesting where it stands that predatory aura does not affect other splats? (vampire even specificvally mentions the werewolf aura as example) \$\endgroup\$ – Thomas E. Jan 19 '16 at 18:53
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Ahriman I asked there after your comment on the Onyxpath forums to make sure and got an answer from chris allen there (one of the freelancers who helped with werewolf 2nd and he said that I'm correct that the predatory aspects affect other supernaturals): forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/… \$\endgroup\$ – Thomas E. Jan 19 '16 at 19:58
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Yes, the interpretation is correct.

First, let's do a breakdown of the various steps:

  • Werewolf uses his Predatory Aura to put the Submissive condition on the Mage
  • Mage fails the resist roll, so he now has the Submissive condition

What are the consequences:

Submissive: Your character faced the full bore of a Rahu’s essence. He’s cowed, and cannot bear to face the Rahu’s fury. He can not directly attack, insult, or defy the Rahu, or the Rahu’s pack, without first spending a Willpower point and making an extended, reflexive Resolve + Composure roll. You may make one roll per turn, but each roll requires an additional point of Willpower. The target number of successes is equal to the Rahu’s Purity. You don’t need to spend Willpower or roll if the Rahu or one of her pack has attacked your character this turn.

The Mage wants to remove the condition, that triggers the defy the Rahu part of the condition. So he needs to start spending Willpower and rolling the Resolve + Composure roll. Once he has scored enough successes, he can try to magic the condition away / restore his Willpower.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ The only thing I would add to this answer is that having the Condition is actually beneficial from a narrative standpoint to the mage player, since it is an opportunity to earn beats. If the player goes with the flow, everyone will have a better time. \$\endgroup\$ – arthexis Jan 20 '16 at 8:07
  • \$\begingroup\$ @arthexis As far as I can understand from the Submissive condition, it' ll only allow the player to earn a beat when he resolves the condition (which is the general rule) and I doubt that the Mage wants to go toe to toe with a Werewolf, just so he can get that health penalty. \$\endgroup\$ – Ahriman Jan 20 '16 at 9:37

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