The question is specifically about the Orc Bloodine. At level 15, you get a free "Giant Form I" spell:

Power of Giants (Sp): At 15th level, you may grow to Large size as a standard action. At this size you gain a +6 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to Constitution, and a +4 natural armor bonus. You may return to your normal size as a standard action. You may remain in this size for up to 1 minute per character level per day; this duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be used in 1 minute increments.

This is cool and exactly the kind of hulk-like sorcerer build I'm going for. However, there is clearly a better version at just the next spell level called "Giant Form II". The only difference I see is how you can turn it on and off at will and save the minutes, and doesn't need a material. Why doesn't it upgrade to form II at some point?

Do you think it's fair that I "upgrade" this power to the second version if I take Giant Form II as a sorcerer learned spell? I'm not trying to be overpowered, I'm trying to get use out of my bloodline power for more than just a few levels. In fact, I'll have the Giant Form II spell either way.



1 Answer 1


The spell giant form I is usually available initially to a level 14 sorcerer. And, at that point, the sorcerer can cast it four times per day. But a Sor14 doesn't need giant form I four times per day for 14 min./day. Encounters don't last that long. Most of the time in combat, after the first minute (or, more likely, after the first 3 rounds) that extra duration will be wasted.

However, being able to use the spell-like ability power of giants 15 times per day for 1 min. each use is far more convenient, freeing up a precious high-level spell known even if the spell-like ability becomes available after the spell giant form I. Further, the sorcerer can activate the spell-like ability—instead of spending a high-level spell slot—as a buff prior to combat pretty much whenever he wants (15 uses per day is a lot). That's pretty serious, too.

I can't know what the developers were thinking, but my guess is that the special ability doesn't advance to power of the even gianter or something because the sorcerer already has this ability and, rather than give the sorcerer something a little better than what he already has at level 20, the developers gave the orc bloodline something brand new.

You can ask the DM if you can upgrade the spell-like ability power of giants contingent upon taking as a spell known the spell giant form II at level 16. I mean, that's interesting, but I wouldn't count on the DM agreeing to it. The spell giant form II is an 8th-level spell, and those matter even at level 20. Being able to cast an 8th-level spell 16 to 20 times—even with a 1 min. duration instead of a 20 min. duration—might be viewed as excessive.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks, very enlightening. This all makes total sense now, especially on the prebuff and not wasting spells. Only thing that bothers me still is that if I want to min/max my hulk-like sorcerer, I need Giant Form II. I'll see what I can trade off to achieve that and still keep the bloodline power flavor if the DM thinks it's ok. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Feb 1, 2016 at 2:22

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