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I just want some clarity on a few questions for Rend when it comes to Eidolons. Lots of research is showing me conflicting, old, or outdated answers.

I think these all belong in one question but I can break them out into separate ones if I'm supposed to.

  1. Does rend only apply when 2 of claws from the same pair of the claw evolution hit or when any 2 claws hit, regardless of pairing? I can't find anywhere that it needs to be from the same pair but a player(who is normally right when it comes to rules) in my game swears that's the case.

  2. Do I get additional rends if 4 or 6 claw attacks hit? My Eidolon has 6 claw attacks and all of them hit pretty regularly. Do I get

no more than once per round

(per the Rend Ability description) Rend Ability or

Whenever the Eidolon makes two successful claw attacks against the same target in 1 round

per the rend evolution Unchained Eidolon? Normally I would say the word "Whenever" in the evolution description modifies the Rend Ability description to remove the limitation, but then the Universal Monster Rules state:

The following rules are standard and are referenced (but not repeated) in monster stat blocks

That, to me, says that the "no more than once per round" would not be repeated and, unless EXPLICITLY said otherwise, still applies. If this is the case though the unchained version of Rend should just say "it's claws latch on to the flesh and deal extra damage once per round." to easily put this to rest. (Emphasis mine)

  1. Is power attack added to the rend damage? I read it to say it is only the Claw's die roll plus 1.5 Str but I see no reason that PA wouldn't also apply. Also, this FAQ says as much. However there is also no attack roll for the penalty of PA to apply to so should it really get the benefit?

  2. Is Energy Damage from either the evolution "Energy Attacks" or an item like Gloves, Deliquescent Gloves, Deliquescent added to Rend as well?

  3. If, using Combat Reflexes, my Eidolon makes 2 AoO's against the same opponent in the same round (running through a huge Eidolon's 15 ft reach for instance) would rend damage apply(assuming no other rends have occurred this round)

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  1. Any 2 claws. Nothing anywhere says different, just that it requires two claw hits.

  2. Only once per round. The wording you quoted doesn't specify "for each two successful claw attacks...", just when it gets two. The additional claws just make it easier to proc (and do their own damage, of course). Notably, however, unlike normal rend, the wording for Unchained Eidolon's rend evolution seems to leave it open for getting one rend per round per target. I would probably rule against that in my own games, but it's certainly a valid interpretation of the wording.

  3. It is not, as I answered here. Rend is applied as bonus damage to the second successful claw attack, not as a separate attack, so it doesn't gain the benefit of (or take the penalty for) per-attack effects. This includes Power Attack, flaming, or any Damage Resistance the target has, making rend a useful way to punch through DR.

  4. No, again, because it's not a separate attack. That damage is already applied as part of the claw that's getting the bonus rend damage.

  5. The wording on that ability seems to leave that option open as well. Even a "half-and-half" approach should work, where if you hit the target during your full attack and then hit it again before your next turn with an AoO or immediate action, the second claw should get the rend damage. That's still going to be a bit of a GM call, and will probably be ruled the same way as the "once per round per target" option from part 2, since they rely on the same interpretation of that wording.

P.S. re #5: Running through a creature's threatened area only provokes one AoO from that creature, regardless of the number of their threatened squares you run through. Just an aside, since the question implies you'd get multiple free shots in that situation.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Regarding #3, the link you provide then links to a quote from 2010. The FAQ I link to was published in 2013. Doesn't that mean the FAQ trumps, which then makes rend a separate attack and subject to PA(and also the Eidolon's natural attack limit)? I don't really understand how FAQs, Errata, and the boards all work together which is a huge part of my confusion. I actually read the post you linked to in my research prior to asking these questions here \$\endgroup\$ – CpnReynolds Mar 8 '16 at 6:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ Also, for number 2, the word "whenever" could be read as "for each two successful claw attacks..." could it not? "Whenever" really isn't a word that implies a singular limit. I'm not trying to argue since my DM will be making these calls in my game, just trying to get some clarity to bring to the table. \$\endgroup\$ – CpnReynolds Mar 8 '16 at 6:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ Weird. The FAQ ruling applies in Organized Play specifically, but can be taken as a general FAQ as well, so.... it's probably more official than Mr. Jacobs's old forum post. This probably means I have two answers that need updating. And some players to disappoint (while that boost is probably a good thing for you, most PCs don't have access to Rend, so a power boost to Rend is a bad thing for them). I'm guessing for number 2 they assumed people already knew how Rend's "If it hits with two or more natural attacks in 1 round..." worked by the time PFU came out. \$\endgroup\$ – gatherer818 Mar 8 '16 at 19:25
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'll do some more research tonight (I'll be doing PF stuff at work anyway) and edit tomorrow with my findings. \$\endgroup\$ – gatherer818 Mar 8 '16 at 20:08
  • \$\begingroup\$ @CpnReynolds gatherer818 is correct, for #3 the damage is "bonus" you do not apply power attack, or "energy attacks" or any sort of additional damage, it is simply one claw attack plus 1-1/2 str. As for #2, the rend can only trigger once per round, "whenever" simply tells the player that the bonus damage gets added when the second claw attack hits. You can read more here: paizo.com/threads/… \$\endgroup\$ – DanceSC Mar 9 '16 at 3:51

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