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I have been reading the rules for creating new weapons and I cant seem to find something that the rules talk about.

Fighter Weapon Group: You must choose the fighter weapon group (or groups) to which your weapon belongs. When determining this, pick the fighter weapon group with the most weapons that have similar statistics (in the case of ranged weapons, the group with the most weapons that are reloaded in the same manner). Some fighter weapon groups grant weapons additional abilities, as noted below.

I have looked for the bolded area and was unable to find these rules. So its not under the new weapon rules, and its not under the fighter class either.

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I believe the bolded text is referring to the "Double", "Monk" and "Hands" weapon groups/features listed just below. Double Weapons and Monk weapons are Fighter Weapon groups, and "Hands" just refers to whether the weapon is light, one-handed or two-handed.

The additional abilities granted by these groups are:

  • Double weapons can use both ends of a single weapon as if two-weapon fighting with a normal and a light weapon
  • Monk weapons can be incorporated into a Flurry of Blows whereas other weapon groups cannot
  • Two-handed weapons allow the user to apply 1.5x their STR bonus to damage, compared to the standard 1x STR for one-handed and light weapons (this would be comparable to the Heavy Blades/Light Blades Fighter Weapon groups)

I can understand where the confusion arises. This particular section should probably be reformatted or reworded to be more explicit that the qualities listed immediately after the bold text are the ones it is referring to.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ One of the others in the group made the same argument. I feel like there is more to it since you are unable to create most of the weapons that are listed. Part of that could be that you are paying for the customization but I just thought there would be more. Like bows get a bonus distance or something. \$\endgroup\$ – Fering Mar 14 '16 at 0:28
  • \$\begingroup\$ I feel that Double-Monk-TwoHanded is not solution. First of all if you take your time to examine Sample Weapons Using this System, we have Weapon Group: polearms, monk, hammers. And Pathfinder has well-defined term Fighter Weapon Groups: paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/armsAndArmor/… - look, in those we have polearms and hammers from example. What's missing from d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons#TOC-Creating-New-Weapons is a list of special abilities that those groups grant + perhaps type of base damage ("P" "S" "B"). \$\endgroup\$ – Jaiden Snow Mar 14 '16 at 4:22
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    \$\begingroup\$ I think that is what happening: d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons#TOC-Creating-New-Weapons has a Source: Pathfinder Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook - that means that after header Creating New Weapons goes citation of Weapon Design system presented in that book, but it seems that due to mistake citation is incomplete. So I feel that anybody who is curious about that missing part could either get a real book to answer question, or report to d20srd about a possible problem - incomplete citation. \$\endgroup\$ – Jaiden Snow Mar 14 '16 at 4:27
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Fering , SableGear - New intel acquired - see my answer below. It seems that in original bolded text referred only to the "Double" and "Monk". \$\endgroup\$ – Jaiden Snow Oct 29 '16 at 22:02
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Some necroposting here. I managed to get a look at that book (Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook) at my friend's place.

First thing's - some funny news.

There is no any form of table with fighter groups in that book. (be that complete or incomplete or both) I felt like my sanity started to seep away when I wrapped my head around that concept.

Even if you search it (that book) by automated methods to exclude human error, there only few mentions of "groups" word and in context where they used they have no relevance to our problem. Really.


Short summary of book:

Weapon design rules are quite complete - they take pages 28-29 and they are all listed at d20pfsrd.

Pages 30-31 has some rules for magic abilities for weapons but those have absolutely no correlation to "gnome flick-mace", "khakkhra", or "war flute".

Pages 1-27 can be loosely described as big list of feats and tricks. No there are no weapon groups there.


That was a puzzle interesting to solve. (Read: it was maddening) Thankfully, consumed by insanitypiration I started to Google different parts of sentences being not in a right frame of mind and that gave me important tip, which i think makes sense:

https://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/classes/fighter.html

Weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups):

Axes: battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, heavy pick, light pick, orc double axe, and throwing axe.

Blades, Heavy: bastard sword, elven curve blade, falchion, greatsword, longsword, scimitar, scythe, and two-bladed sword.

Blades, Light: dagger, kama, kukri, rapier, sickle, starknife, and short sword.

Bows: composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, and shortbow.

Close: gauntlet, heavy shield, light shield, punching dagger, sap, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, and unarmed strike.

Crossbows: hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, and light repeating crossbow.

> Double: dire flail, dwarven urgrosh, gnome hooked hammer, orc double axe, quarterstaff, and two-bladed sword.

Flails: dire flail, flail, heavy flail, morningstar, nunchaku, spiked chain, and whip.

Hammers: club, greatclub, heavy mace, light hammer, light mace, and warhammer.

> Monk: kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and unarmed strike.

Natural: unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing.

Pole Arms: glaive, guisarme, halberd, and ranseur.

Spears: javelin, lance, longspear, shortspear, spear, and trident.

Thrown: blowgun, bolas, club, dagger, dart, halfling sling staff, javelin, light hammer, net, shortspear, shuriken, sling, spear, starknife, throwing axe, and trident.

Emphasis mine.

Here comes some small important detail - in the book of (Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook) they actually have Double and Monk as italic so that is written like:

Fighter Weapon Group: You must choose the fighter weapon group (or groups) to which your weapon belongs. When determining this, pick the fighter weapon group with the most weapons that have similar statistics (in the case of ranged weapons, the group with the most weapons that are reloaded in the same manner). Some fighter weapon groups grant weapons additional abilities, as noted below.

Double: The weapon gains the double special feature. You pick the damage type of each of the weapon's ends separately. If you choose the additional damage type or the improved damage quality with the weapon (see below), treat each end as a separate weapon when determining the Design Point cost of that quality.

Monk: A weapon can be placed in the monk group only if it gains the monk weapon feature (see below).

Hands: For melee weapons, y...

Weight: When determining a weapon's...

So in the end I think in original it meant that you can choose any fighter's group from Fighter's Class page. But if that group is Double or Monk it will have additional abilities like:

Double: The weapon gains the double special feature. You pick the damage type of each of the weapon's ends separately. If you choose the additional damage type or the improved damage quality with the weapon (see below), treat each end as a separate weapon when determining the Design Point cost of that quality.

Monk: A weapon can be placed in the monk group only if it gains the monk weapon feature (see below).

Any weapon of any other group (not from Double or Monk) is absolutely mundane and have no abilities you should worry about.

H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags#answer-1732454

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you for checking in on that, it was irritating to not know for sure if it was something as simple as missing content. \$\endgroup\$ – Fering Oct 30 '16 at 19:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Ferig yes, same here - it was irritating. Now that I can see how this system works... hm. Although it is a bit baroque (step with choosing Fighter Groups is horrible - you must take weapons price list, and reorganize it to expose relations of weapons to their Fighters Groups, then you must judgement based on "what does it looks like most" Ugh. Messy, difficult, mind-numbing.) But it can be useful. First of all it gives you ability to have any "iron on the stick" combinations of hooks, blades, spikes, hammers. It's nice. \$\endgroup\$ – Jaiden Snow Oct 31 '16 at 16:54
  • \$\begingroup\$ Next, it can be used to give some interesting gameplay mechanics to weapon smiths. I think some players-smiths will appriciate this - creating a new type of weapon or a single-in-the-world masterpice is something that has a lot of agency, methinks. Another way to affect the world. Next it can be used to create more interesting treasures. Next, it could be used to create racial weapons which could be interesting for world building. I think clanky part can be streamlined and simplified if you use that system to recreate any of default weapons and then use remaining BP. Or predefine templates. \$\endgroup\$ – Jaiden Snow Oct 31 '16 at 17:00

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