8
\$\begingroup\$

This question already has an answer here:

Say an enemy is between me and a cliff, but they are 5' away from the edge (and I am 10'). I can't shove them because that only pushes them 5', which would get them right up to the edge; I need a 10' power shove.

I'm not quite clear on how moving while grappling a creature works, specifically where the creature ends up while you move them around.

Can I, with 1 attack, grapple them, then move them off the edge of the cliff and simply let go? If I can't do this with 1 attack, could I do it with 2? (grapple, move, shove or perhaps shove, move, shove) And what if it's not a sheer cliff face but, say, a low wall or fence?

\$\endgroup\$

marked as duplicate by Greenstone Walker, user17995, keithcurtis, user27327, Thomas Jacobs Sep 18 '17 at 8:19

This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.

  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Nice job on the HNQ-friendly title =) \$\endgroup\$ – nitsua60 Mar 19 '16 at 15:51
10
\$\begingroup\$

Your best option is probably to grapple them. First replace an attack with a grapple (if you have "multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.") then carry/drag your enemy to the edge then replace another attack with the shove action to shove them 5 feet away from you (off the edge). If you have 2 attacks you can do this in one turn, otherwise you'll have to do it in two.

\$\endgroup\$
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ You probably don't even need to do the shove attack. Grappling let's you move the creature where you want, and it doesn't require an action to release the grapple. So you could just move him to the edge and release him over empty space. Picture Batman hanging somebody from their leg. As a DM I might grant the falling creature a reaction (if it still had one) to try to grab the edge, but I'd also give the grappler a reaction to attack if the grab succeeded. \$\endgroup\$ – Lino Frank Ciaralli Mar 20 '16 at 5:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ @LinoFrankCiaralli The viability of the method of dropping them without a shove is somewhat questionable. The rules don't go into much detail as to how moving with a grappled creature works but as a DM I would probably require my player to shove them off the edge. \$\endgroup\$ – Nickmagus Mar 20 '16 at 22:12
4
\$\begingroup\$

You have a lot of ways to accomplish this:

  • To those with high Athletics: Grapple the opponent, move 10' forward (requiring 20' movement), release grapple
  • To those with Extra Attack: Shove the opponent 5' back, move in their square, shove them again
  • To Fighters: Attack, hit, expend one Superiority Die on a Pushing Attack Maneuver. The target makes a Strength saving throw and, if they fail, they will be tossed 15' away from you
  • To spellcasters: Use Thuderwave. The opponent makes a Constitution saving throw, and upon failure, is tossed 10' away from you
  • Another way: Grapple, move 5' forward (requiring 10' movement), shove them 5' back

If you need to push them off a low wall or fence first, I'm not sure, but I think the above methods might also work, if the DM allows you to substitute a shove for a toss. Otherwise, grapple them, lift them on the fence, and let go.

\$\endgroup\$
  • \$\begingroup\$ How do you know that the first option (grapple, move, release) actually works? It feels pretty much superior to a shove 5' in every way so I'm not sure why you'd ever perform a shove if you could do this kind of thing instead. \$\endgroup\$ – Mag Roader Mar 20 '16 at 17:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ @MagRoader The first option needs 20' of movement. The second needs only 10' but 2 attacks. If you can't move 20' anymore, consider the other options. And it works because, PHB pg. 195, Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you. Stands to reason that if you move right next to a cliff, you can force the other off it. \$\endgroup\$ – user27327 Mar 20 '16 at 18:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ I guess I'm not confident that "with you" means "you can position then in a specific way." Feels more like dragging alongside to me. \$\endgroup\$ – Mag Roader Mar 20 '16 at 21:13
  • \$\begingroup\$ @MagRoader If you imagine your opponent standing by the ledge, and you in front of them, you can move into their square, and so, they must move back. It just so happens it's a sharp drop after they move, so they're not falling because you're holding them up. You might want to take into account the rules for Push, Drag, or Lift, PHB pg. 176, to see if you're strong enough to do this (otherwise maybe you might fall with the opponent). You might want to clear it up with your DM if they will allow this in the first place, though. \$\endgroup\$ – user27327 Mar 20 '16 at 21:23
  • \$\begingroup\$ I actually am the DM. I'm trying to figure out jut how dangerous high places are. Dangerous, sure, but how bad are we talking? :) \$\endgroup\$ – Mag Roader Mar 20 '16 at 21:46
2
\$\begingroup\$

You can do this with 1 attack and 20 feet of available movement. Grapple, move 10 feet (costing 20 feet of movement) so you are standing on the edge and they are hanging in space, let go and wave bye-bye.

\$\endgroup\$

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.