The alternate racial trait Skilled removes my dark vision as a half-orc, but my bloodline arcana gives me darkvision.

If I replaced my half-orc darvision with "Skilled", but also am an orc bloodline sorcerer, do I still get darkvision?

I feel because the bloodline arcana specifically states if I already have darkvision then it increases to 90 feet, that I do indeed keep a normal 60 ft version of dark vision with this setup.


  • \$\begingroup\$ My reading is that "Skilled" replaces the way you would gain an ability, rather than remove it. Because of that, you're not prevented from gaining it another way. \$\endgroup\$ – Samthere Apr 12 '16 at 9:33

Yes, you'll get darkvision out to 60 feet.

It's not exactly simultaneous, because the character creation process puts race before class.
(Which makes logical sense - you're born before you choose your profession.)

As part of choosing your race: Skilled racial trait replaces your usual racial Darkvision.

As part of choosing your class: Orc bloodline arcana, if you don't have Darkvision (which you now don't), gives you the standard 60' Darkvision.

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    \$\begingroup\$ I was struggling with this and was about to reach the same conclusion, but then... the darkvision is gained as a result of gaining the orc subtype, which the character already has. Is there precedent for a type replacing a type that you already had? Can you become what you already are? \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan Apr 12 '16 at 5:12
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    \$\begingroup\$ However, the orc subtype isn't a dial but a switch. (And the orc subtype says specifically half-orcs don't gain light sensitivity.) A half-orc that gains the orc subtype already has the orc subtype. He can't be any more orcish than he already is. I mean, I'm okay with the answer, and I agree the half-orc with the orc bloodline should get darkvision 60 ft., but I don't know where the rules say that, and I always struggle with cases where the game says to gain something already possessed. Where else does this situation arise where the solution is clear? \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan Apr 12 '16 at 5:27
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    \$\begingroup\$ I have nothing to add except I feel the same and wish this game had rules as tight as magic the gathering \$\endgroup\$ – Thisisstackoverflow Apr 12 '16 at 5:31
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Thisisstackoverflow You might want to try Fourth Edition, then; It has the kind of highly codified rules you describe. \$\endgroup\$ – GMJoe Apr 12 '16 at 7:16
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Adeptus Similarly, the situation presented in this question doesn't prevent you from taking the bloodline. However, if the darkvision trait comes from the bloodline because the bloodline gives you the [orc] subtype, and you are already the [orc] subtype because of your race and you've traded away your racially-granted darkvision trait for something else, it's not nearly as unambiguous as you're making it out to be. I think that's what Hey I Can Chan is trying to say. \$\endgroup\$ – LegendaryDude Apr 12 '16 at 12:12

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