It seems like cleric in PF can use unlimited times of 0-level spell a day.

By a simple calculation, a level 1 cleric working for 8 hours a day can create 9600 gallons of water a day, by using the Create Water spell.

Am I misunderstanding the rules or is that how the Pathfinder rules work?

If a cleric can provide water for a whole town of people in a desert, this will surely bring a huge effect on desert civilizations. I am not very familiar with the worlds and settings of Pathfinder, did the designers consider these types of things when making the setting?

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    \$\begingroup\$ Welcome to the site. Take the tour. Are you wondering if your calculations are correct or is there another question that needs answering? It sounds like you understand the rules yet want to discuss them; if that's the case, you might instead try a forum. The site's happy to check your math, but the site can't really help you--yet!--in determining , for example, what kind of impact this rule will have on your campaign. No matter what, thank you for participating and have fun. \$\endgroup\$ – Hey I Can Chan Apr 15 '16 at 18:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ [Possibly Related] Can you sell constructed items? \$\endgroup\$ – LegendaryDude Apr 15 '16 at 19:11
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    \$\begingroup\$ Also, it's worth noting that there are water merchant druids in the official Pathfinder setting (Golarion) who specifically make their livings doing exactly what you have described here. \$\endgroup\$ – LegendaryDude Apr 15 '16 at 19:32
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    \$\begingroup\$ I think ChrisPy's existing answer is technically correct but not explained well. I'm reasonably sure I've already answered basically this exact question, using the walk/hustle/forced march rules here. \$\endgroup\$ – gatherer818 Apr 16 '16 at 11:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ @gatherer818 This question isn't asking about moving while casting spells at all. It's asking "if a cleric can provide water for a whole town", which implies a stationary cleric casting all day, not a moving cleric casting all day. \$\endgroup\$ – DuckTapeAl Apr 16 '16 at 21:16

In short, yes.

Your numbers are correct. A level 1 cleric can cast 4800 cantrips in 8 hours, which would make 9600 gallons of water, just like you say. It's definitely true that a civic-minded cleric could totally solve the water problem for a mid-sized city. If you've got a backup cleric or two, or are willing to take a risk on occasionally not having water for a time, this is a totally reasonable way of generating water.

Your secondary question about how this would effect a desert civilization: You're probably right that the existence of this kind of magic should have a huge effect on how desert civilizations survive and thrive, but generally D&D and Pathfinder setting books don't actually go into the realistic implications of magic. The economics on D&D and PF make absolutely no sense at all, and this is just another branch of that nonsensical tree.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ is there any other economic nonsense example? \$\endgroup\$ – Alex Chow Apr 15 '16 at 19:55
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    \$\begingroup\$ The spell Fabricate \$\endgroup\$ – ChrisPy Apr 15 '16 at 19:58
  • \$\begingroup\$ @AlexChow This is more based off of D&D 3.5 than Pathfinder, but is a relevant look at the economies of fantasy games: goblinscomic.org/09092006 \$\endgroup\$ – lithas Apr 15 '16 at 20:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ Just a note, In an old campaign setting Dark Sun, create water was a 9th level spell as opposed to a 1st or 0th level spell. Because water was such a rare and valuable commodity in a world like this, the magic was treated very differently in an all desert world. \$\endgroup\$ – Mayshar Apr 20 '16 at 18:48

Your numbers look good to me, but that's only for a level 1 Cleric! Here's the math in long form:

Level 1 Cleric, Create Water: Create Water has a casting time of 1 action, so every 6 seconds (or 10 times a minute) he can Create Water producing up to 2 gallons of water. Providing that he's given ample containers to cast into, that means that he can produce

2 × 10 × 60 × 8 = 9600 Gallons/8hrs.

Now let's say that all of this water creation (and maybe putting out a few fires) has leveled up our friend. It turns out that the 2 in the equation is really 2 × Level (as per the spell's description), which means that he creates 9600 Gallons/8hrs per level! A level 2 Cleric makes twice as much (19200 Gallons/8 hrs) and a powerful level 8 Cleric makes as much in 1 hour as a level 1 Cleric makes in 8! If a level 8 cleric works all day he make 76800 gallons! That's enough to run a full-power real-world fire hose for over 4 hours straight!

There is one big downside to Create Water, especially in the context of a desert settlement: If your lose your Cleric, your water source is gone, and it's gone quickly. You can't hoard water made through Create Water, no matter how powerful the Cleric who cast it was, because it disappears in 24 hours if not consumed. Communities may not have a Cleric of their own, or may not want to put all of their lives in the hands of one individual who might not be there tomorrow. If the Cleric ever falls ill or is rendered unconscious for a period lasting more than a day or two, you're in real trouble.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Thank you. Having a whole town supported by a single cleric is a cool idea. Perhaps a tribe is travelling across the desert with only one cleric. And the cleric is attacked/assassinated/etc This may be a good idea to start a game \$\endgroup\$ – Alex Chow Apr 15 '16 at 19:54
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    \$\begingroup\$ That sounds like a great hook for an adventure! Such tribes would be VERY protective of their Clerics, maybe to the point where clerics have a lot of power in the tribe \$\endgroup\$ – lithas Apr 15 '16 at 19:59
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    \$\begingroup\$ I like your point on "use it or lose it" regarding th 24 hour duration. \$\endgroup\$ – KorvinStarmast Apr 16 '16 at 15:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ Can you permancy water created by the create water spell? :) Even if not, there are extend spell feats and such, im sure that 24 hour number can be increased somehow. \$\endgroup\$ – Mayshar Apr 20 '16 at 18:49
  • \$\begingroup\$ By the RAW you cannot Permanency Create Water, except with GM Fiat. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to allowing it at my tables because the comparative utility of such a spell is pretty low, and I don't see room for abuse, especially if it's cost is in line with something like Detect Magic. I'm not positive that the extend feats would work with this, because the Duration of Create Water is instantaneous. The 24 hour limit isn't a duration, it's a direct effect of the spell. \$\endgroup\$ – lithas Apr 20 '16 at 19:00

That's going to assume that your cleric is casting spells at the full speed that they would as if they were in tactical movement. From the movement page;

Tactical Movement

Tactical movement is used for combat. Characters generally don't walk during combat, for obvious reasons—they hustle or run instead. A character who moves his speed and takes some action is hustling for about half the round and doing something else the other half.



A character can hustle for 1 hour without a problem. Hustling for a second hour in between sleep cycles deals 1 point of nonlethal damage, and each additional hour deals twice the damage taken during the previous hour of hustling. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from hustling becomes fatigued.

A fatigued character can't run or charge and takes a penalty of –2 to Strength and Dexterity. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue.

So, at the very least, I'd round down that amount of created water by a factor of 8, as you can only hustle for around 1 hour a day, not 8. However 1200 Gallons of water is still quite a bit, but your character wouldn't be able to do anything else, (like combat!) that day without becoming fatigued.

Also, from Goods and Services, NPC Spellcasting costs:

Spellcasting Caster level × spell level × 10 gp(3)

(3) See spell description for additional costs. If the additional costs put the spell's total cost above 3,000 gp, that spell is not generally available. Use a spell level of 1/2 for 0-level spells to calculate the cost.

So unless your desert people are willing to spend 5 silver for a gallon of water, it's unlikely they can afford water from the temple. Now, if it's a player that's running the cleric, well, you can't charge the same-rate for your spells. You can do it out of the goodness of your heart, and win the love the of desert people, and that's 'cause you are an adventurer. Welcome to the world where everything's made up, and logical points (sometimes) don't matter!

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    \$\begingroup\$ -1: This really doesn't have anything to do with movement, or cost. The question isn't asking if a desert town could buy water this way, or if a cleric could do this on the move. It's asking about a stationary cleric serving a town this way. \$\endgroup\$ – DuckTapeAl Apr 15 '16 at 19:29
  • \$\begingroup\$ I think "hustling" refers to moving twice your move rate (ie, double-moving). If you're not hustling, you can still single-move. None of this directly relates to spellcasting, so it sounds like you're trying to impose a house-rule here. \$\endgroup\$ – Dan B Apr 15 '16 at 19:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ @DuckTapeAl : If wizards and clerics cast spells for free, then yes, that would dramatically change the setting. The point is that they don't, and that normal NPC's can't afford their rates. \$\endgroup\$ – ChrisPy Apr 15 '16 at 19:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Dan B :I'm under the impression that all actions that require a standard action take place at the tactical pace, aka hustling. You need to target something to cast create water, which can only be done at the tactical level as well. I'd argue it's not a walk, as you aren't walking, and, well, there's no other option on the movement page. It's not listed, therefor, a 'work' option doesn't exist. The next one up is hustling. It's silly, but that's how I understand it. \$\endgroup\$ – ChrisPy Apr 15 '16 at 19:49
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    \$\begingroup\$ Have you got a rules citation for that? I'm not saying it's a bad house rule, I'm just saying you shouldn't represent it as a game rule unless it's actually in the game rules. \$\endgroup\$ – Dan B Apr 15 '16 at 21:10

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