Say, I was playing for 8 levels with Wis = 9 and Cha = 19. From 9th level and further I'd like to get them swapped: Wis = 19 & Cha = 9.

What are possible ways to do so? There is the retraining feature in the DMG, but it has house rule smell and requires cooperation from DM. Is there any other more straight methods to swap two ability scores?

I'd like to give example for similar process in the other field. You could swap feats known with retraining, that is rather cloudy process. And you could swap them directly with Dark Chaos Feat Substitute.

  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ I'm not qualified to give an answer, but would you also be ok with ending up with WIS 19, CHA 19 ? \$\endgroup\$
    – lithas
    Commented Apr 19, 2016 at 1:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ Well, that would require too much sacrifices, as nothing is given for free \$\endgroup\$
    – ayvango
    Commented Apr 19, 2016 at 1:52
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ @lithas is right. It's, like, way easier to increase the heck out of an ability score than it is to swap two ability scores' values. But it is an interesting question that I look forward to someone taking a shot at. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Apr 19, 2016 at 2:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ @HeyICanChan: It would be the best firstly swap the abilities and then increase it. \$\endgroup\$
    – ayvango
    Commented Apr 19, 2016 at 2:44
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ What is the reason you want to raise your wisdom all of a sudden, (I suspect multiclassing) and why isn't charisma relevant now, while it was before? Maybe we can find other ways around your problem - such as using a different stat for casting or for determining monk AC bonus - unless you want to roleplay a wiser character of course. \$\endgroup\$
    – Zachiel
    Commented Apr 23, 2016 at 11:06

1 Answer 1


You have a few options. (Nearly any major change such as what you want to attempt requires cooperation from the GM in my belief)

  1. No, you can't do it. Personally to me as a GM it smacks of metagaming and as a GM I wouldn't allow it, without some real good reasoning.

  2. As a GM I can think of ways to reduce your Charisma easily (disfiguring wounds and a different char attitude), but raising your Wisdom from 9 to 19 would be a long slow process involving several items to a total of +5 magical bonuses to your abilities (see inherent bonuses DMG p21) and the +1 ability bonus per every four levels to a combined maximum of 18, by the time you reach level 20, which is still one short of your desired amount.

  3. Talk to your GM and see if he/she would create (homebrew) a magical item that swaps the two attributes in question. It may create some fun situations for you and the rest of the group.

  4. Being completely unable to think of any reason of why you would want to do this (other than metagaming), maybe you are getting bored with the char. Create a new one and play it for a while. Maybe it's taken a while for you to realise that as a Cleric (for example — you didn't state your Class), Wisdom is more important than Charisma and regret putting your scores where you did. The solution is the same, have a chat with your GM and roll a new character.

I prefer to play characters that aren't the best at what they do, it makes me have to think of harder to achieve goals. The same goes for the players that I GM for, I'd rather see a Wizard with a less than optimal Intelligence than one that is all powerful.

  • \$\begingroup\$ The question has been tagged with the dnd-3.5 tag to indicate that it is about D&D 3.5e. \$\endgroup\$
    – Miniman
    Commented Apr 23, 2016 at 3:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ Thanks Miniman, the browser I was using wasn't showing the Tag, using a different browser now does. \$\endgroup\$
    – Turook
    Commented Apr 23, 2016 at 3:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ As for now I ended with ability draing and restoration route instead of swapping ability scores \$\endgroup\$
    – ayvango
    Commented Apr 26, 2016 at 8:43

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