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Are there existing rules on what happens when you take an existing effect between two areas where the paradigms are meaningfully different? I'm playing oMage Revised, so M20 rules are deprecated but not entirely irrelevant.

The obvious example is something like, say, taking a hypertech padded vest (Corr 2/Forces 2/Matter 2 shielding) into a Verbena Chantry - it'd be coincidental in the rest of the world, but vulgar inside.

EDIT: So it seems there's a bit of confusion about this question. I am assuming that the vest is an Effect using a specially constructed vest as a focus, as opposed to a permanent Wonder that requires quintessence to create - maybe the Technocrat is replacing the insides with an unstable ballistics gel equivalent, I don't know. It's coincidental outside the Chantry and vulgar inside, due to the details of the paradigms involved. Given that that's true, what happens when you bring it in?

I suppose I should add the game balance tag (well, it doesn't seem like there is one), because "nothing" doesn't seem balanced - if that were the case, then there's nothing stopping me from piling up (Arete x Willpower) successes of wards in my own Construct, and then walking around basically untouchable outside.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ You seem to be confusing Chantry with Sanctum. \$\endgroup\$ – okeefe May 6 '16 at 2:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ Mm. Well, less confusing, and more assuming that any Chantry will also be a Sanctum, because what Mage wouldn't want to live in a friendly paradigm? \$\endgroup\$ – linkhyrule5 May 6 '16 at 11:31
  • \$\begingroup\$ A Sanctum can be no larger than 500 square feet, and most of them are much smaller than that... typically a room or two. Quoting M20, but I don't think this is a rules change. \$\endgroup\$ – okeefe May 6 '16 at 12:27
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Paradox Happens

When a mage uses magic in a way that defies the consensus reality, paradox is generated. Depending on various factors (vulgarity, witnesses, etc.) the amount of paradox varies. Out in the world, so to speak, the consensus reality is science is real, magic is not. Thus, paradox is a significant obstacle for a mage.

A Verbena Chantry exists as a small part of this larger world. In such a place, there is a strong local consensus effect that makes magic somewhat less paradoxical. It's literally easier to do magic here because the people here believe in magic.

So, what happens when a Son of Ether brings a magic vest into a Verbena Chantry? I'd say it generates less paradox than having one out in the world. The reason is "no magic" vs. "magic" is a much bigger difference than "science magic" vs. "blood magic" is. It may not be the same dialect, but at least it's the same language.

That said, Marauders do whatever they want.

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Doing Magick is an act of an individual defying global and local consensus.

When a Mage instantiates an effect, regardless of the specific kind of magic, he exerts his willpower to bend the rules of reality. In some cases (e.g. opening an Umbral Portal) local consensus makes a huge difference, but it is expected that once an effect is cast, maintaining does not pose a large difficulty.

Creating a hypertech vest inside a Verbena Sanctum might be slightly more difficult than creating one in a city apartment, but not by very much. You already need to overcome huge MAGIC DOES NOT EXIST dogma and Verbena consensus at least accepts that world is not as Sleepers know it.

Carrying in a hypertech vest that is an extant Effect of a techmagic Focus is just as easy and straightforward as carrying any other extant effect. You have already made the Effect, its existence does not depend on the whim and fancy of local paradigms, otherwise Magic would be pretty useless. You do, however, need to maintain a degree of concentration as per the rules.

Carrying in a hypertech Wonder, which has been created elsewhere has nothing to do with the wearer. It's the Wonder that exerts Magickal pressure on the local paradigm and if it doesn't collapse elsewhere, it shouldn't now.

Now, you can and should assume, that you can cast any magic as vulgar without witnesses if only mages gaze upon it. Note that in Revised Paradox is generated only at the act of creation, so while a hugely vulgar wonder might collapse under the new paradigm, an effect shouldn't.

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Mage is a very philosophical storytelling game and the paradigm is a personal view on the world and how magic is woven.

What I think your problem is that you're mixing a few things together (at least in my opinion). You have a wonder (the hypertech padded vest) that is taken to a Verbena Chantry. It is not vulgar inside the chantry. Would anyone cast a spell or build a hypertech padded vest inside the chantry there could be problems with the difficulty of the spell since the resonance of the place could be another making it more difficult, but it would not be a problem since vulgar and coincidental would be a problem with the whole consensus and not the chantry. A Verbena would have a hard time to build such a wonder since it would hardly fit into her paradigm.

The coincidental and vulgar magic has something to do with the consensus and the ability to bend reality. Since the Chantry itself would allow the mage to bend reality and any other awakened mage inside the Chantry would know that this is possible, it would still be coincidental magic, at least in my opinion.

The other part is: It's a wonder you're referring to (at least that's what I'm reading, otherwise see the last paragraph). In my mind the coincidental and vulgar question only happens to be of significance at that one point, where the spell is cast and the wonder is build. And since such a thing would not be done around sleepers (at least only around sleepers in a cult that believe in such a thing) and the vest does not defy any laws of reality in a very obvious way, I'd say that it is coincidental wherever it happens to be, since it was conicidental from the beginning and once the spell is cast.

That are my interpretation of the very flexible system of Magic in Mage.

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