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I'm using Mage's Blade enchantment on a rapier. Does this Mage's Rapier now count as a dagger for powers and feats that need a dagger or what does "Proficient as: Dagger" mean?

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I'm using Mage's Blade enchantment on a rapier. Does this Mage's Rapier now count as a dagger for powers and feats that need a dagger or what does "Proficient as: Dagger" mean?

No, it does not count as a dagger for powers and feats that need a dagger. You cannot hope to gain the benefits from Rogue Weapon Talent while wielding a Mage's Rapier. Likewise, you cannot use a Mage's Rapier with the Sorcerer's Ensorcelled Blade power and you cannot use a Mage's Rapier as a Sorcerer implement (like a dagger).

What you can do, is use a Mage's Rapier on characters that would otherwise be non-proficient with Rapiers so long as they are proficient with simple weapons or daggers (meaning, pretty much everybody). In other words, for the use of a weapon enchant, you get the equivalent of a weapon proficiency feat.

To get the most use out of it, I'd suggest placing a Mage's Weapon enchantment on a superior weapon because there are cheaper ways (like backgrounds) to get access to military weapons like rapiers. That's also assuming your character is feat-starved (who isn't?) and you need a weapon upgrade.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ What superior weapon would you suggest? I still need a light blade. \$\endgroup\$
    – BlackEye
    Commented Jun 24, 2016 at 13:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ A rapier is still a good light one-handed blade (even if it is a military melee weapon rather than a superior weapon). I was suggesting there were cheaper ways to get proficiency with a Rapier than using up your weapon enchant. Depending on your character, the Gritty Sargeant background may be cheaper. If you are considering a Hybrid character it is important to note that weapon proficiencies are additive between the two classes (unlike armor proficiencies). \$\endgroup\$
    – Fred Derf
    Commented Jun 28, 2016 at 18:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ May I post my complete build here on rpg.stackexchange for some feedback? Don't know if this would be on or off-topic. \$\endgroup\$
    – BlackEye
    Commented Jun 29, 2016 at 7:59
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Assuming you are talking about a Mage's Weapon (Adventurer's Vault p. 72), it says quite clearly in the description:

Anyone proficient with simple weapons or the dagger is proficient with this weapon.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ Why should it be of any importance? I'm proficient with a weapon or not, why is the dagger stated explicitly? That's the only source I foudn about this issue click \$\endgroup\$
    – BlackEye
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 23:13
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    \$\begingroup\$ Because some classes (like the Mage IIRC), are not proficient on all simple weapons, but are proficient with a dagger, so they are still able to be proficient with it. The "simple weapons" is slightly redundant, but I guess they might want to avoid something thinking that they were "only" proficient with simple weapons, and thus couldn't use it effectively. \$\endgroup\$
    – firedraco
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 23:16
  • \$\begingroup\$ But this effect is sufficiently described in the property of the enchantment: "Anyone proficient with simple weapons or the dagger is proficient with this weapon" So what is the value of this addition "Proficient as: Dagger", there are other sorces of weapon proficiencies without such an additional item property. \$\endgroup\$
    – BlackEye
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 23:21
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    \$\begingroup\$ @BlackEye Because if they hadn't put that in there I guarantee there would be someone on these forums asking why a Mage would use a weapon of a given class when they're not proficient. Some people read too much into things. Some people don't read enough. RPG authors of highly detailed systems tend to assume the latter. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 23:44
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    \$\begingroup\$ I'm not sure where you are reading this "Proficient as: Dagger"? I don't see that anywhere in the item description from the compendium. \$\endgroup\$
    – firedraco
    Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 1:07

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