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Shiba Bushi's rank 1 technique is written as:

The Way of the Phoenix: When spending a Void Point to gain +1k1 on a roll, you may choose to spend 2 Void Points (to gain +2k2) on the roll instead.

and I'm trying to understand how this interacts with effects that change the value of Void Points. Eg.

Daredevil: Whenever you spend a Void Point to enhance an Athletics Skill Roll, you gain a bonus of +3k1 to the total of the roll instead of the normal +1k1.

Is the +2k2 from the Rank 1 Tech a package deal, meaning that Daredevil would make it +4k2 (if it is even allowed to apply at all) or is each Void Point adding an individual +1k1 bonus, making it +6k2 with Daredevil?

the "(to gain +2k2)" in the Rank 1 Technique seem to indicate that it's the latter option but a line in Shiba Bushi's Rank 5 Technique:

...Additionally, you may now spend Void Points on enhancements twice in one Turn

Implies to me that that is not what Rank 1 Technique is allowing. So, how am I supposed to interpret it?

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TL/DR: It's +6k2.

Normally, you can spend a Void Point once a Round to "roll an additional die, keep an additional die".

The Way of the Phoenix lets you spend two VP on a single enhancement roll, getting the benefit of "roll an additional die, keep an additional die" twice.

Daredevil lets you substitute each "roll an additional die, keep an additional die" you get out of spending a Void Point on Athletic Rolls with "roll three additional dice, keep an additional die"

So, if you have both The Way of the Phoenix and Daredevil, and you spend two VP on a single Athletics Roll, you get +6k2.


There seems to be a slight confusion about one of the features of the ultimate technique here:

Shiba Bushi Rank 5: Touch of the Void - snip fluff - For every Void Point you spend, you gain the effects of spending two, when applicable. Additionally, you may now spend Void Points on enhancements - mechanics chapter reference- twice in one Turn.

First effect: it lets the player treat each VP spent as two VP spent.

Second effect: it allows the player to ignore a "once per Round" limit and spend two Void Points on two different rolls during the Turn: different attack rolls, Disarm attack roll and subsequent contested Strength roll, and so on.

Even if he still could spend them on a single roll, I'd say that this expenditure of two VP would count to a limit of "twice in one Turn".

I say "even if he could" because there seems to be a contradiction in developer commentaries regarding that matter:

One variant:

The ability to spend two Void Points on enhancements does not allow the character to spend two Void Points on the same enhancement (like gaining +4k4 damage source).

Contradictory answer:

Our assumption has always been that a Shiba R5 who spends 2 Void points on one roll gains +4k4 to that roll, achieving a rare moment of perfect harmony (perhaps accompanied by celestial music and lighting effects).

(from a low level of trust source that seems to be a victim of link decay)

Of course, Rank 5 is a character of a level high enough to let the player just have fun ( Rule of Cool ) spending two VP on a single roll getting +4k4 (+12k4 = +10k5 using Daredevil on Athletics rolls) and then in the same Turn repeating that for another roll since "can spend VP twice in one Turn".

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  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm actually pretty sure that the Rank 5 would allow you to spend up to 4 Void Points in a turn. Ultimate techniques tend to be pretty broken and this basic lets you blow all your void points for the day on one turn. I agree you probably cannot gain enhancements to the same thing twice, though. \$\endgroup\$ Jun 22, 2016 at 17:23
  • \$\begingroup\$ Remember that you cant spend 2 VP on damage roles at any given time. That also means one VP which Counts as spent two doesnt double the damage output to +2k2. \$\endgroup\$
    – user29782
    Jun 23, 2016 at 6:20
  • \$\begingroup\$ @norskface, why ? The Rank 1 technique of that school specificlly lets you spend 2VP on any rolls you can spend 1VP. And it is unlikely for somebody to have Rank 5 without already having Rank 1. \$\endgroup\$
    – Nox
    Jun 23, 2016 at 8:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ Special Rules: A character may spend one Void Point to increase a damage roll made using a katana by 1k1 (Void Points cannot normally be spent to enhance damage rolls). Only one Void Point may be spent in this manner, even if the character has an ability that would allow him to spend more than one Void Point per round. P.204 \$\endgroup\$
    – Saelvarath
    Jun 23, 2016 at 14:57
  • \$\begingroup\$ Re:you gain the effects of spending two, when applicable. When would this technique be inapplicable? could I reduce damage taken or increase Armour TN by 20 instead of 10? \$\endgroup\$
    – Saelvarath
    Jun 23, 2016 at 16:32

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