I'm part of a team of level 20 characters (5 players total). I am a Shadow Dancer 10 / Investigator 10.

Our party is in a war, and I am a spy within the group. I am planning to betray them. The problem is that we have a level 20 sorcerer that I want to kill, but at level 20 she can be fairly easily brought back from the dead and I want her dead dead, without her coming back. I have money, but I don't have a wizard/sorceror I can trust with creating me a Trap the Soul or something like that with her name on it.

What options are available to me that allow me to kill someone with no coming back, that do not rely on having a trusted spellcaster assist me?

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    \$\begingroup\$ Please don't get into whether this is a good idea or not - just answer the question. If you think (and that's fair) that this is a bad idea or a bad playstyle, then move along and answer some other question. \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Jun 27 '16 at 22:19

As a spy, you presumably have a lot of deception-related skills. One good option is to make it look like a suicide. People who commit suicide generally don't want to be resurrected, and won't come back if you try. If you also create a fake corpse (find someone who died of old age and thus can't be resurrected, and disguise their corpse as the sorceress's), the sorceress's allies might simply cast raise dead, confirm that it failed, and give up.

Likewise, as a spy, perhaps you can impersonate the cleric who's going to be casting the true resurrection, and just tell her allies the spell failed. Heck, perhaps you can just impersonate the sorceress for a while, and tell her allies you're going on a personal side quest and please don't bother her for at least a year. That should throw them off the trail.

The problem with all the above approaches is that, if the sorceress is a player character, and the player is sitting next to you at the table saying "he totally killed me, don't fall for the deception", the other players might choose to have their characters not fall for the deception.

So let's talk about incapacitating her. One funny idea might be to capture her and put a helm of opposite alignment on her head. You can keep removing and re-equipping the helm until she rolls a 1 on her saving throw. Once she changes alignment, she might become your secret ally. (This is arguably the nicest thing you could do, in that it doesn't involve removing another player's character from the game.) Even if she doesn't become your ally, she "views the prospect (of returning to her former alignment) with horror", which means she probably goes into hiding to keep her former allies from changing her back.

Along the same theme, if she gets turned into an undead, it's impossible to resurrect her until the undead is destroyed. For example, if you let a wight or shadow or mohrg or spectre or vampire or wraith kill her, she'll become an undead and the true resurrection spell will fail. The problem with most of these approaches is that the sorceress's allies can just cast discern location to find the undead she's turned into, then teleport and kill the undead, after which true resurrection will work as normal. So it's a speed bump, but not a permanent solution.

There is one exception: if you let a vampire kill her, she keeps all her class levels when she turns into a vampire. This could make it very difficult for the party to track her down and kill her -- for example she could plane shift to somewhere they couldn't get to easily, or she could teleport away when attacked, or she could just fight them and be really hard to defeat. If the vampire that kills her has 10 hit dice, it gets control of her, and it could command her to run and hide, or to be your ally or whatever. Otherwise she's free-willed, which could be bad for you.

A third option might be to try to get help from the people you're working for. You've told us that you don't have access to a trusted spellcaster, but surely a whole enemy nation has at least one or two good casters? You might try incapacitating the sorceress and giving her body to your allies, and let them deal with keeping her prisoner.


If you're looking for permanent ways to get rid of her without the 'ease' of resurrection, there are a few options available to you. I'll only go over the ones that you could potentially purchase and don't need to have a pre-determined target, since you have magic-items as a tag. Note, I'm assuming you have the requisite UMD score to be able to use spell trigger or completion items.

Scroll of Imprisonment, its a useful spell, and at level 20 its also one of the only ways to permanently incapacitate someone, so it wouldn't even necessarily be out of the ordinary for you to purchase one (the BBEG gets imprisoned, everyone's happy). And since you know about the sorcerer, she gets a -4 on her save.

Scroll of Soul Bind (with a gem worth at least 20000 gp), a little less easy to convince people its for innocuous ends, but if you can get one, it will give you full control over whether they can come back, all you need to do is keep the gem in a safe place and you'll be fine.

Scroll of Feeblemind + planar travel. Dump the sorcerer, still alive but with 1 int and 1 cha, into an alternate plane, like the plane of shadow or the astral plane, somewhere that they can survive in, because feeblemind still lets their survival instincts run wild, so they won't just kill themselves or allow themselves to be killed. Probably the cheapest method and the one least likely to cause an uproar, though if they get put on the wrong place they could just die and then revivification is still an option. Though if the party tries to true resurrect her, and it doesn't work (because she's still alive), they might think something more is up.

A Void Scythe makes it so only true resurrection or very carefully worded wishes/miracles can bring them back.

A Mirror of Life Trapping is another possible way, though exceedingly expensive and much more difficult to use.

You could also use a Bag of Devouring which gives a 50% chance for all resurrection (including wish and miracle) to fail.

If all else fails, you can probably try and contact a Demon Lord/Archdevil/Daemon Prince to reap their soul after you're done, though that likely would make you theirs afterward.

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    \$\begingroup\$ I would add that if you are going to go through the trouble of Feebleminding them and taking them to another plane, perhaps replace their body in camp with a pile of dust, or some other thing that looks like a different spell was cast on them and they are merely dead. That makes the party more likely to do a quick True Res, and assume something else is up when it fails. \$\endgroup\$ – Marshall Tigerus Jun 27 '16 at 20:34

You are a rogue type, and clearly evil, so you need to think nonlinearly about this. There's a lot of spells and magical doodads that might/could help, but the easiest practically-no-cash-required way is to make them unwilling to return.

"If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work."

So - kidnap a kid, or loved one, or whoever the sorceress cares about more than herself, and hold them hostage. When you kill her yell "and don't come back or I slit X's throat!" Done and done. Or whatever other sort of blackmail or threat might motivate that particular person to go off to the outer planes and never return. There's no save against ROLEPLAYING!


For this answer, I assume the other players have access only to True Resurrection, or inferior magic. Let's see when this spell doesn't work:

  • The target is dead since more that 10 years*CL. If you have a way to distract the team for 200 years, that can do it.

  • It can't resurrect constructs. That seems difficult to exploit

  • It can't resurrect undeads. This is easier as undeadness can be gained in many ways. The vampire solution of Dan B is one, but it can be pretty much any contagious undead. What you have to do for that is bring him to negative HP, but whithout killing him, and throw him in a contagious undead nest. Then you can burrow all of them, so the only way to bring it back would be to find him, kill the undead, and then bring him to life. If you add some divination protection, the chances to find the undead sorcerer become very weak.

  • It can't resurrect creatures who died of old age. I remember about a monster which makes people age very fast, but I can't find it.

  • the subject's soul must be free. Maybe you know a bad guy who is interested it getting his soul? Bring him to negative HP and carry him to some daemons, you can trust them for not letting him be raised.

  • the subject's soul must be willing to return. Kill him, inject some paralysis poison. Go to a temple (Abadar or Asmodeus are good choices), ask for a raise dead. Thanks the temple, take the paralyzed wizard, and kill him again one hour later. Take it back to the temple and ask them again, repeat until either he have too many negative level to be raised or he refuse the raise. When this is done, go to another temple and do this again. When you will have visited a bunch of temple, bring back the corpse to the party and tell them you tried everything to bring him back but it didn't work. Cry a lot. Tell them the only temple left is the one of (evilest divinity in the city) because you thought it would be a bad idea to associate with these dudes. Try to bring him back once more and cry a lot because you loved him so much and it's so sad you can't even apologize for having being a dick this time two years ago. If you did your job correctly (and if the other players are not metagaming), there is no reason for the sorcerer to accept the raise.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Skimming through old thread, I'm wheezing, imagining the face of the cleric to whom you're bringing the same dead body they just ressurected three times in a row. NPC #1257 is not very perceptive \$\endgroup\$ – Nyakouai Apr 12 at 12:21
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Nyakouai: Abadar clerics usually don't ask questions as long as you pay. Of course, for other deities it may require some kind of explanation but I am quite confident that a lvl20 spy would be able to make that believable enough. \$\endgroup\$ – Anne Aunyme Apr 15 at 12:16

I suggest casting Geas/Quest on the person with a command along the lines of "I will refuse to come back from the dead until I am alive and will not reveal that this is a command to anyone/anything, even myself" and then killing them or letting them die.

The problem with this is that Geas does end at some point (1d/CL?), and can be broken by other means. But who would suspect that this is the reason why and go into the effort of breaking the geas?


Could you permanently imprison/incapacitate her instead?

Or, being level 20, rent a sphere of annihilation and chuck her in?

In pathfinder the books state, "Only the direct intervention of a deity can restore an annihilated character."


I'll give it a shot.

You might be able to exploit the "Creatures died from old age can not be resurrected" rule, in conjunction with the Genesis spell. As the spell description states, you can determine the environment on your freshly-created demiplane: "You determine the environment in the demiplane, reflecting most any desire you can visualize, such as atmosphere, water, temperature, and the shape of the terrain."

If you pull it off to pay a wizard for the spell before your game master knows what's up, you might be able to convince him to have "speed of time passing" as a variable you can fix at the demiplane creation. Have the time pass insanely fast on your demiplane. Have the sorcerer feebleminded and planar travel her to your plane.

Depending on the demiplane configuration, she should crumble to dust after a few moments :-)


Probably the easiest way is to throw them into a pit of wights after using feeblemind to cripple their spellcasting. The wight killing the sorcerer will turn them into a wight, which is technically an undead creature, and will prevent them from being able to be resurrected if they die.

For extra insurance you can use Enervation to insure that the person you're attempting to kill has a very small chance of killing the wights, which will insure that the wights are able to properly deal with him.


Depending on how sticky of a situation you want to be in, wish spells work wonders :p (see bottom of post)

Curses might be another way to go.

"Curse of the Ages" causes the cursed individual to age 1 year/day which would be an "easy" way to get to the die of old age clause, though it might be too slow.

"Runecurse" could be another curse that gets the job done - the target gets hunted by a specific devil. If you can get them hunted by a devil that collects souls, maybe immune to magic on top of that or highly resistant to magic, and have the target fight it solo - you might be good.

"Shattered Self" gets the target's mind to split into two personas: one normal and one self-destructive (let them do the work themself, this one seems iffy though)

These curses can be bestowed on the target by a contract devil or by scroll/magical item perhaps - no spellcaster necessary

Speaking of devils and sticky situations: Contract Devils should be able to write up a contract that can get the job done for you but you'll also have your soul in debt to serving eternity in servitude in hell.

I don't know how your GM is with looking up monsters so maybe bring that up to your GM before just looking up what exactly they can do, but the main two things a contract devil does with their contracts is grant three wish spells (not shabby for killing a player DEAD), or grant the servitude of a devil of equal CR (so CR20) or lower (with the right devil, maybe?) But contract devils can do many other things as well with those lovely contracts.

OR get a random guy off the streets to sign the contract instead, use 1 wish for the target to be dead with no chance of resurrection, 1 other wish of your choosing (likely a mind -wipe?), and 1 wish of their choosing to a bribe to get them to agree to signing. Or give them both extra wishes. As this is dealing with wishes and devils take care with how EVERYTHING is worded!!!!!

As per arranging for a contract demon to meet up with you/meeting one, try hiring a spellcaster to send you (And the random individual) to the hells (a wish can probably wipe their memory no problem) or another method of your GM's choosing. If you can get to the hells without a mind-wiped spellcaster - all the better!


protected by Community Dec 14 '18 at 10:11

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