In 7th Sea Second edition I'm having trouble figuring out how these Arcana stack?

Virtue: Humble Activate your Virtue to gain 2 Hero points instead of 1 when you activate your Hubris or trigger a Quirk.

Hubris: Unfortunate You receive 2 Hero Points when you choose to fail an important Risk before rolling.

Is this 2, 3, or 4?

Arguments as I see them. 2, Both Hero points are for choosing to fail, not for the Hubris, 3, One of the hero points is for the Choosing to fail, and one for the hubris, which doubles for a total of 3 4, Both hero points are from the Hubris and therefore both double.


Following the patterns of the other Hubrises, I suspect the answer should be three. This includes the Hero Point you normally get when you choose to fail a Risk.

I think the intent is for them to be worded more like this:

Hubris: Unfortunate Gain an additional Hero Point when you choose to fail an important Risk before rolling.

Virtue: Humble Activate your virtue to gain an additional Hero Point when you activate your Hubris or trigger a Quirk.

The pattern I'm seeing in the Hubrises is that they give you a Hero Point for completing some kind of negative behavior. In the case of Unfortunate, I think it's worded the way it is to make it clear that you get the Hero Point normally associated with failing a risk as well as the Hero Point for giving in to your Hubris.

I'd then expect Humble to work the same with Unfortunate as it does with any other Hubris.

This gives you a total of three Hero Points:

1 (for choosing to fail a Risk) + 1 (for activating Unfortunate) + 1 (for being Humble).

  • \$\begingroup\$ You mention a pattern of other Hubris. Which ones? \$\endgroup\$ – Christopher Jun 30 '16 at 3:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Christopher All of the other Hubrises are of the form "do something unhealthy to gain one Hero Point." Which makes me think that Unfortunate is probably the same, just worded poorly. \$\endgroup\$ – AceCalhoon Jun 30 '16 at 12:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ They all say "gain one" though, not "gain an additional". I don't see the jump from "gain two" to "gain one more" that you're making. All the Hubris' tell you a specific amount of HP gained, and I think that is intentional. \$\endgroup\$ – Christopher Jun 30 '16 at 13:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Christopher Perhaps another way to word the way I see it is "You receive a Hero Point when you choose to fail an important Risk before rolling (in addition to the one you normally receive)." But I get what you're saying. It's one of a couple of rules-literalist approaches, and you aren't wrong from that perspective. \$\endgroup\$ – AceCalhoon Jun 30 '16 at 13:47
  • 2
    \$\begingroup\$ Three is correct. \$\endgroup\$ – Rob Justice Sep 6 '16 at 16:02

You get 2 Hero Points

Both specify that when the trigger occurs, you get 2 Hero Points. Not "one extra," nor "one more than normal."

Each is specifically worded, so any other reading isn't what the book says. You get 2 Hero Points.

The Humble Virtue will still be worthwhile when triggering your Quirks, but won't trigger with your Hubris.


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